re: 2025 NASCAR Season Thread - 2025-26 Offseason

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Apparently, a lot of those fans who came on board in the 90s weren't loyal, either.

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Not true. They have shed the most of them but it’s still the biggest block of fans. But don’t worry they will chase all loyal fans away soon enough.

Nascar admitted as a business model they knew they’d lose 15% of viewers going to Prime. It was more than that.

Imagine any business intentionally chasing fans away to chase very young new fans. Knowing young fans are not loyal to begin with. Thats who’s leading this circus.

Any smart business would work to retain loyal fans and work to get new ones. If you have a good product you never lose that many fans. And if you have a good product enough of those loyal fans will talk about the race all week long which would make younger fans curious and want to watch. Thats how you grow it and not toss your best customers.

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Apparently, a lot of those fans who came on board in the 90s weren't loyal, either.

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When Nascar kept pissing on us, fans like me left

NASCAR doesn't want racers in the sport, they want businessmen. How many of the top brass in Daytona ever wrenched or drove a race car?

That might be part of the lawsuit settlement, if we're lucky

Trial started today with Jury selection beginning this morning. Will be interesting to see if NASCAR actually lets this go to witness testimony part.

I despise what Nascar has become. At the same time I’m sticking to my prediction they win. Most likely both parties settle before 2 weeks trial is up.

Private company. No where near a monopoly, many other places to go race , ya didn’t like the charter and didn’t sign now your crying about it. Go race somewhere else. The only thing this hurts is the fans

Just like if you owned the only burger joint you can go work at a chicken place. Also they are private owned

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So by logic Gibbs has a monopoly over Toyota. Hamlin could sue his boss correct?

Matt Weaver
@MattWeaverRA
Court has taken a brief recess.

Lawrence Buterman, one of NASCAR’s antitrust defense lawyers, has begun cross-examination of Denny Hamlin.

A consistent theme is that Buterman is working to paint Hamlin as an unreliable narrator and/or disingenuous to the facts compared to the legal claims.

Butterbean brought up DH's Kenny Wallace Show appearance where he praised schedule innovation and the reduced barrier to entry of the NextGen, which countered earlier claims on the stand where DH said the NextGen had cost nearly $400,000 instead of the $250,000 they were promised, contributing to financial burden.

Hamlin said he did due diligence before founding 23XI, that Joe Gibbs Racing was against the NextGen but that 'it had the possibility' of reducing cost 'if the cost stayed the same' that 'would reduce workforce."

On the FullSpeed documentary, Hamlin said the NextGen leveled competition and he told Wallace 'the car was a net positive for the sport.'

Hamlin said that was a NASCAR talking point and that everyone in the sport knows that if you say something negative someone from leadership calls you.

"Did you just say we can't take your words seriously," Buterman asked.

"That's nonsense," DH said

Hamlin says sometimes he says things just to make fans and leadership happy

Similarly, in the suit DH and 23XI have talked about financial strife, but during charter negotiations, DH told MJ and Curtis that he was 'optimistic their goals' including profits were being met.

How are both true, Buterman asked

"Im the cheerleader for the team," Hamlin says that he has to be positive to keep MJ and CP happy.

"If Michael says 'this is stupid, Im done,' then Im done."

NASCAR illustrates 23XI's profits and DH says they are one sponsor leaving away from being in the red.

A lot of back and forth about Denny's spending habits and how much pushback he gets from Curtis and Gene Mason, like in the emails that were unsealed.

Denny says they are successful because CP and GM -- "It's their job to keep us in check."

While Curtis disagreed with the cost of AirSpeed, because of the state of charter negotiations, 'he agreed with the vision and thats why we did it.'

DH says he and MJ want to win, and while there is a notion of reckless spending, the other partners keep that in check, and that's why they operate so lean and make profits.

Hamlin thinks 23XI could be more profitable if MJ were more invested but conceded MJ was retired so he doesnt get asked a lot to invest more time.

Why does 23Xi spend so much on holiday parties?
"We take care of our people."

Denny was asked what he makes
(Objection, overruled)
Around 14 million
When asked why more than most other drivers, Denny says 'Im at the top of my game.'

Buterman says 23XI is basically asking the jury for $200 million and a 900 percent return on his investment

DH says he just wants a fair deal and that his expert will testify on the damages numbers

Denny has been pressed on the damages number but he keeps responding that the expert will address it

They're going to go another hour and then a lunch break