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re: Roth IRA vs Traditional Savings Account

Posted on 2/3/14 at 2:10 pm to
Posted by dcrews
Houston, TX
Member since Feb 2011
32130 posts
Posted on 2/3/14 at 2:10 pm to
quote:

I would suggest building an emergency fund in a linked savings account that you can access quickly instead of worrying about using a Roth for emergency purposes.

Once you are satisfied with that safety net look into maxing out the Roth.


Solid advice. I wouldn't be using any funds in my Roth as emergency funds. However, let's say I have $20k.

Why wouldn't I just put all $20k into the Roth instead of doing a $15k/$5k Roth/Traditional Savings split? Why not let that $5k "emergency" money in my savings work for me in the Roth if I can access it almost as easily?

This post was edited on 2/3/14 at 2:11 pm
Posted by OnTheBrink
TN
Member since Mar 2012
5428 posts
Posted on 2/3/14 at 2:17 pm to
quote:

Why wouldn't I just put all $20k into the Roth


For starters, there is a max amount you can contribute. I think the point you are missing is you are losing time in the market when you pull from it. Let's say you need a couple of thousand, decide to sell the XOM in your Roth, and cannot replace the money for a year. In the meantime, XOM has went up 10% and paid their 2.73% dividend for the year. Not only are you out the couple of thousand, you lose roughly %12 for pulling it out.

Since we know you are not talking about minor expenses, it may work best for you. It all comes down to what helps you sleep at night. For me personally, having 6 months expenses sitting at a local bank that I can move within minutes gives me a good night sleep.

This post was edited on 2/3/14 at 2:24 pm
Posted by dcrews
Houston, TX
Member since Feb 2011
32130 posts
Posted on 2/3/14 at 2:22 pm to
quote:

For starters, there is a max amount you can contribute. I think the point you are missing is you are losing time in the market when you pull from it. Let's say you need a couple of thousand, decide to sell the XOM in your Roth, and cannot replace the money for a year. In the meantime, XOM has went up %10 and paid their 2.73% dividend for the year. Not only are you out the couple of thousand, you lose roughly %12 for pulling it out.

Since we know you are not talking about minor expenses, it may work best for you. It all comes down to what helps you sleep at night. For me personally, having 6 months expenses sitting at a local bank that I can move within minutes gives me a good night sleep.


Good points.

I guess basically I was thinking, if all I'm putting into savings yearly is $5500, then why not forego the traditional savings account and put all of it into a Roth and make it work for me instead of sitting stagnant.

I guess now, I will max out the Roth, then take whatever savings over $5500 for the year and use that to keep at my local bank.

Posted by OnTheBrink
TN
Member since Mar 2012
5428 posts
Posted on 2/3/14 at 2:25 pm to
quote:

I guess now, I will max out the Roth, then take whatever savings over $5500 for the year and use that to keep at my local bank.




Then, when you feel like the savings at the bank has gotten to a comfortable level, you can invest any extra on your own! Win-win-win!
Posted by dcrews
Houston, TX
Member since Feb 2011
32130 posts
Posted on 2/3/14 at 2:27 pm to


How do you guys choose what money goes where? I believe I read in one of the threads here on MT that for smaller amounts of $$$ in a Roth, just put it into one fund (for lack of a better term).

How do you guys decide where your Roth money goes? What type of fees should I expect (if any)?

Probably going to look at fidelity or vanguard as they seem to be the most reputable (or at least that's what I've read).
This post was edited on 2/3/14 at 2:28 pm
Posted by meldawg399
nola
Member since Oct 2008
1177 posts
Posted on 2/3/14 at 2:47 pm to
quote:

I guess now, I will max out the Roth, then take whatever savings over $5500 for the year and use that to keep at my local bank.


The other thought process is that if you have a major expense when the market makes a downturn, and you need access to your Roth money while the market pulls back, you could end up taking the cash out at a lower value than what you put it in at. That's why most of the experts say have 6-9 months living expenses available in a liquid (cash) account. You would have more time in that scenario to try and find a better price to see your Roth assets at if you have to liquidate them.
Posted by meldawg399
nola
Member since Oct 2008
1177 posts
Posted on 2/3/14 at 2:51 pm to
quote:

How do you guys decide where your Roth money goes? What type of fees should I expect (if any)?


I use Vanguard; most people use Vanguard or Fidelity but I'm sure there are other good options out there too. Most sites can give you a listing of funds they offer and some sort of tool to compare or filter them on attributes like past performance, risk tolerance, type of fund, expense ratio, etc. It is really up to you to decide your risk tolerance and what sort of assets you want to be in. I think low fee is the way to go, but some argue certain actively managed funds outperform the market at large. Also I know Schwab has partnership agreements with certain funds that if you keep your investment in them for 90+, 120+, etc. days, they don't charge you buying or selling fees.
Posted by GoCrazyAuburn
Member since Feb 2010
41017 posts
Posted on 2/3/14 at 2:52 pm to
quote:

How do you guys choose what money goes where? I believe I read in one of the threads here on MT that for smaller amounts of $$$ in a Roth, just put it into one fund (for lack of a better term).

How do you guys decide where your Roth money goes? What type of fees should I expect (if any)?


A lot more complex question than you probably realize

Depends on your account objective, risk tolerance, time horizon. I know many here put their stuff in different target date funds.

As far as fees, it all depends on the different funds, who the account is with, etc...
Posted by dcrews
Houston, TX
Member since Feb 2011
32130 posts
Posted on 2/3/14 at 2:56 pm to
Honestly, barring some insanely, apocalyptic event where I would need every penny of my finances, my Roth would remain untouched.

Since I'm young, my risk tolerance is high. (As I've also read/been told that at a younger age, you need to be more aggressive within the market). Ideally, I'd like to retire sometime in the next 30-35 years (or at least that seems reasonable).
Posted by GoCrazyAuburn
Member since Feb 2010
41017 posts
Posted on 2/3/14 at 2:59 pm to
quote:

Honestly, barring some insanely, apocalyptic event where I would need every penny of my finances, my Roth would remain untouched.


Yes, however without knowing your age, your time horizon to retirement could be 15,20, 30 years. All would/could change investment objectives.

quote:

Since I'm young, my risk tolerance is high. (As I've also read/been told that at a younger age, you need to be more aggressive within the market)


While I agree, do a risk profile, i'm sure you can just google one. Never assume, and there are varying degrees of "high risk tolerance". I have plenty of clients who are pretty young, but cannot handle a bunch of risk and volatility in their investments. I have some very old clients who are still very aggressive with their investments, sometimes against my advice
Posted by foshizzle
Washington DC metro
Member since Mar 2008
40599 posts
Posted on 2/3/14 at 9:20 pm to
quote:

To me, my stance remains, just seems like a lot of work for small, one-time expenses.


Mine too, but I don't use a Roth for those piddling things either. I just make sure my checking account has a bit extra to take care of that sort of thing. Savings accounts just don't pay enough extra over regular checking to be worth fooling with.
Posted by dcrews
Houston, TX
Member since Feb 2011
32130 posts
Posted on 2/5/14 at 11:24 am to
If my understanding of Roth's is correct, assuming I have just opened a Roth IRA today, and have made no contributions past or present (and I'm not rolling anything over), I can actually put $11,000 into the account "this year".

$5500 into the account before the tax deadline for the 2013 tax filings, then obviously another $5500 into the account that will be for the 2014 tax year filing, correct?
Posted by meldawg399
nola
Member since Oct 2008
1177 posts
Posted on 2/5/14 at 11:43 am to
quote:

$5500 into the account before the tax deadline for the 2013 tax filings, then obviously another $5500 into the account that will be for the 2014 tax year filing, correct?


yes just need to get the 2013 $5500 in before the deadline. When I put money in my Vanguard, it let's me pick what year I'm contributing to until I max a year out.
Posted by foshizzle
Washington DC metro
Member since Mar 2008
40599 posts
Posted on 2/5/14 at 11:46 am to
quote:

Why wouldn't I just put all $20k into the Roth instead of doing a $15k/$5k Roth/Traditional Savings split? Why not let that $5k "emergency" money in my savings work for me in the Roth if I can access it almost as easily?


I don't have a savings account - I pile into my 401/Roth/HSA as much as possible for exactly this reason. The tax-free Roth gains don't matter much the first couple of years but it adds up. There is no reason to have a savings account that I can think of.
Posted by foshizzle
Washington DC metro
Member since Mar 2008
40599 posts
Posted on 2/5/14 at 11:47 am to
quote:

$5500 into the account before the tax deadline for the 2013 tax filings, then obviously another $5500 into the account that will be for the 2014 tax year filing, correct?


Posted by Volvagia
Fort Worth
Member since Mar 2006
53388 posts
Posted on 2/5/14 at 12:57 pm to
quote:

Heck, what rarely gets said in these threads is why not do both? Have a month or two in a savings account and the rest in a Roth. Hooray best of both worlds



This.

My problem is with the idea of having 6-12 months of expenses just sitting there getting eaten up by inflation.


I keep enough liquid in savings for short/intermediate issues, but use a Roth for long/major savings.
Posted by dcrews
Houston, TX
Member since Feb 2011
32130 posts
Posted on 2/5/14 at 1:31 pm to
nvm
This post was edited on 2/5/14 at 1:32 pm
Posted by Sherman Klump
Wellman College
Member since Jul 2011
4571 posts
Posted on 2/5/14 at 1:40 pm to
Correct me if I'm wrong: For a roth IRA, contributions can be withdrawn penalty free at any time? Earnings would be subject to a 10% penalty?
Posted by jimbeam
University of LSU
Member since Oct 2011
75703 posts
Posted on 2/5/14 at 1:52 pm to
After5 years I think
Posted by foshizzle
Washington DC metro
Member since Mar 2008
40599 posts
Posted on 2/5/14 at 2:00 pm to
quote:

After5 years I think


There is a five year "seasoning" period for contributions that came from a converted (i.e. traditional) IRA.

Contributions that were not converted (i.e. made directly) can be withdrawn at any time, no waiting period required.
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