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Message
re: Retiring before 50
Posted on 6/13/23 at 6:36 pm to JohnnyKilroy
Posted on 6/13/23 at 6:36 pm to JohnnyKilroy
quote:I said they should budget a million total for ~25 trips in their waning years. When they fly commercial, they should fly business/first where applicable and never think twice about it.
No I truly don’t know what you mean. Your argument is that high NW individuals should consider flying private. That is an extreme cost increase over the alternative.
I could understand if flying private was like double, maybe even triple, the cost of commercial but it’s not even close to that. More like 30x or 40x. A private charter from NY to europe is gonna be 150k or more for round trip.
I never said anything about flying to Europe. Stop turning this into the OT.
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Posted on 6/13/23 at 7:34 pm to Big Scrub TX
Why don’t you just purchase a yacht and a PJ if you don’t have to worry about money? It’s just strange that you picked since an arbitrary thing you need to do to be considered “worry free”. And, it’s very out of touch with reality. At 10million, with 30-40 years left, you could definitely blow through that if you wanted.
Posted on 6/13/23 at 7:35 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
a million total for ~25 trips
A million ain’t getting you 25 trips lol.
You don’t understand how much this shite costs. Unless you’re traveling with other randos as part of some membership program. Even still, you’re still paying 15-20x what a commercial flight would cost.
quote:
I never said anything about flying to Europe
Forgive me for assuming you would want to travel Europe at some point in your retirement years.
Posted on 6/13/23 at 7:40 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
So what denominator does that imply for you?
That’s what a ~5 mill portfolio can provide. 6 million if you want to be more conservative.
Posted on 6/13/23 at 7:50 pm to SM1010
I'm 4.5 years away so that's not happening for me. I hope I can retire at 60-62.
Posted on 6/13/23 at 8:15 pm to nugget
quote:Because 10 million isn't enough to do that.
Why don’t you just purchase a yacht and a PJ if you don’t have to worry about money?
quote:Which thing are you referring to? Gas? Tips? Travel?
It’s just strange that you picked since an arbitrary thing you need to do to be considered “worry free”.
quote:Weird non-sequitur. You could blow through 50 BILLION if you "really wanted".
At 10million, with 30-40 years left, you could definitely blow through that if you wanted.
Posted on 6/13/23 at 8:17 pm to JohnnyKilroy
quote:That would be 40K/trip. I think you're wrong. Obviously depends on particulars, but the rough numbers clearly support this.
A million ain’t getting you 25 trips lol.
quote:It's obvious you've just dug in on a non-point. Care to extricate yourself and be more constructive? I LITERALLY SAID older high net worth folks should carve off a million for private air travel. Several times. That's it.
Forgive me for assuming you would want to travel Europe at some point in your retirement years.
Posted on 6/13/23 at 8:20 pm to JohnnyKilroy
Thread went completely off the rails.
Big Scrub is describing a lifestyle more like $100M than $10M.
I’ve given a little bit of thought to what would be a number for retirement…I come back to $5M liquid. With that, it generates plenty of free cash flow in a low risk scenario and I would expect the principle would grow over time as my spending wouldn’t exceed the returns.
Depending on market returns and a couple career breaks, I hope to have the “problem” of contemplating it.
Big Scrub is describing a lifestyle more like $100M than $10M.
I’ve given a little bit of thought to what would be a number for retirement…I come back to $5M liquid. With that, it generates plenty of free cash flow in a low risk scenario and I would expect the principle would grow over time as my spending wouldn’t exceed the returns.
Depending on market returns and a couple career breaks, I hope to have the “problem” of contemplating it.
Posted on 6/13/23 at 8:26 pm to southside
quote:
Let's say he contributes Max to his IRA from mid 30s to 50. That is only 10 years worth of contributions that could be penalty free(age 35-45). That's less than $100k at 50 years old that would be penalty free. That'll be barely be enough for a years worth of utilities, medical bills/premiums and groceries in 20 years.
You aren't going to retire early with one strategy deployed, however, if you're married you can double your example.
And someone wanting to retire early with any substantial understanding of the financial requirements would not have waited until 35 to start a ROTH. Or maybe they were lucky and had a custodial roth opened before they were even 18.
This post was edited on 6/13/23 at 8:40 pm
Posted on 6/13/23 at 8:51 pm to lynxcat
quote:
Big Scrub is describing a lifestyle more like $100M than $10M.
No, I'm not. quote:What about illiquid? Because what "liquid" investments are going to something you can rely on to this extent?
I’ve given a little bit of thought to what would be a number for retirement…I come back to $5M liquid. With that, it generates plenty of free cash flow in a low risk scenario and I would expect the principle would grow over time as my spending wouldn’t exceed the returns.
Posted on 6/13/23 at 10:41 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
No, I'm not.
You said you would need to be at an amount where you can buy any thing or service you wanted with zero regard for price....and you want to fly private.
10M (or anywhere close to it) does not buy you into that club. Adjust your expectations.
Posted on 6/13/23 at 11:08 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
That would be 40K/trip.
Well it depends on the kind of private you're flying. Are you a member of some service where you pay five figures in yearly dues just for the privilege of spending more money on actual flights and having to share the plane and leave on their schedule etc? Yea, maybe 30k per trip will get you that.
If you want to go to X place so you call up your local PJ charter and say I want myself and my family to fly to X place on this date, at this time, and I want you to fly us back on X date at X time? Yea that's gonna run you a lot more than 40k. More like double that.
Check out FatFire subs, this topic comes up regularly and people with much higher net worths than 10M will tell you they can't afford PJ travel.
I just don't really understand your stance that being "comfortable" in retirement requires (at minimum) first class travel, but only if the private jet isn't available. Like that is a crazy high expense add for not nearly that much value.
This post was edited on 6/13/23 at 11:27 pm
Posted on 6/13/23 at 11:21 pm to JohnnyKilroy
Having flown PJ a couple times…it’s a cool experience but I can’t imagine footing that bill. This is such a odd “requirement” for something so in excess.
Posted on 6/13/23 at 11:33 pm to lynxcat
The bill for a PJ only makes sense if you are just dumb rich or its a special business situation where it actually is cheaper to fly the travel party private for whatever reason. My multi multi billion dollar a year employer has a PJ and the parameters that must be met before you can use it are crazy because in only very limited circumstances is it worth it to break out the jet.
If you are just a guy and want to go somewhere on vacation? You need a LOT more than 10M to swing that. A LOT more.
If you are just a guy and want to go somewhere on vacation? You need a LOT more than 10M to swing that. A LOT more.
Posted on 6/14/23 at 12:09 am to JohnnyKilroy
quote:Yes, but I'm talking about "normal" things. Fuel, food, travel, etc.
You said you would need to be at an amount where you can buy any thing or service you wanted with zero regard for price
quote:Yes, up to the VERY CLEARLY DEFINED, DOABLE extent I clearly stated.
and you want to fly private.
Posted on 6/14/23 at 12:18 am to JohnnyKilroy
quote:I think you're wrong, but it's literally not worth arguing about. Pick a million bucks and divide that by however many flights you think that buys you. Also, take that million, and divide it by the net worth denominator you want. In the exact numerical example I provided you, it was spending 1 million of 15 million - 6.67% of a high-net-worth's net worth - over the course of years. That's it. Literally.
Well it depends on the kind of private you're flying. Are you a member of some service where you pay five figures in yearly dues just for the privilege of spending more money on actual flights and having to share the plane and leave on their schedule etc? Yea, maybe 30k per trip will get you that.
If you want to go to X place so you call up your local PJ charter and say I want myself and my family to fly to X place on this date, at this time, and I want you to fly us back on X date at X time? Yea that's gonna run you a lot more than 40k. More like double that.
quote:
I just don't really understand your stance that being "comfortable" in retirement requires (at minimum) first class travel, but only if the private jet isn't available. Like that is a crazy high expense add for not nearly that much value.
My stance is that a comfortable retirement does not include things like penny pinching for flights. Rather, it includes always flying/traveling in comfort, guilt-free - including some private. I think I saw a thread on here just today advising people how to save $50 bucks on a flight by somehow going back to Southwest and re-booking or whatever. If anything, the retirement I'm talking features paying an assistant or whoever $100K/year so that you NEVER have to care about such a thing.
But whatever, pick whatever good or service you want and apply it to that. Or perhaps it's more helpful to think of it as an indifference point. A comfortable retirement has an indifference point WELL above $50. Something more like $5K or higher. Like, hey did you get tickets to the concert? Yeah. How much did they cost? I don't know. Doesn't matter, I didn't even look.
Posted on 6/14/23 at 12:24 am to JohnnyKilroy
quote:Of course that's true for a company. It very rarely makes pure financial sense. Again, you are COMPLETELY ignoring the concept of non-monetary utility. By this logic, it doesn't even make sense to fly anything but the very cheapest, shittiest coach you can find (and that's only IF it's "worth it" to fly in the first place). Ditto your automobile. I guess it's Ford Fiesta's for all, since it isn't actually cheaper to have a sports car or a nice SUV.
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The bill for a PJ only makes sense if you are just dumb rich or its a special business situation where it actually is cheaper to fly the travel party private for whatever reason. My multi multi billion dollar a year employer has a PJ and the parameters that must be met before you can use it are crazy because in only very limited circumstances is it worth it to break out the jet.
Posted on 6/14/23 at 3:27 am to Big Scrub TX
quote:
Because 10 million isn't enough to do that.
quote:
Retirement, for me, will involve ZERO guilt or worry about money.
Oh, so you won’t have ZERO guilt or worry about money?
Posted on 6/14/23 at 3:35 am to Big Scrub TX
quote:
If anything, the retirement I'm talking features paying an assistant or whoever $100K/year so that you NEVER have to care about such a thing.
I’m sorry, but my parents retired early with a similar or slightly higher net worth than you’re describing. There ain’t no fricking way they need a full time assistant in retirement. You must be like 17
Posted on 6/14/23 at 6:01 am to Big Scrub TX
quote:LOL
If anything, the retirement I'm talking features paying an assistant or whoever $100K/year so that you NEVER have to care about such a thing.
For him to retire at age 50 in 15 years and pay a guy $100k/year would cost him about $4MM. You want him to use 40% of his retirement (that you estimated he’ll need) to pay a guy so he doesn’t have to use Expedia??
You’ve totally wrecked this thread, all for a troll it would appear.
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