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Started By
Message
Need some Expert advice on Tax Returns (sorry for long explanation) ...
Posted on 1/18/21 at 10:52 am
Posted on 1/18/21 at 10:52 am
** Please keep opinions out of this thread. If you can't state facts from experience in the field or personal experience, then the opinionated input is not wanted. Thanks in advance **
I'm in a pretty shitty situation dealing with my wife's ex-husband when it comes to claiming their two children on tax returns. My wife's ex-husband is about as deadbeat of a father figure as it gets. He is years (not months) behind on child support because he doesn't keep a job for more than about 3 - 4 months out of a year, but that is not really what my issue is about.
Last year (during the beginning of 2020), he asked my wife if he could claim both of his boys on his tax return for the 2019 year (of course without contributing hardly anything of his share of child support, while the boys live with me for the entire year). My wife knew my answer would be a resounding NO, but she said she would ask me to be sure. By the time she asked me, the ex-husband already filed his taxes claiming the two boys without my permission. Of course I was furious. I guess he got an instant return on his taxes, but within a few weeks, he gave his wife a payment of $6,000 which we assumed was for back child support (he owed much more than that). I then decided to just not claim the two boys on my tax return (against my better judgement) to not have to deal with the issue of both he and I claiming the two boys. The ex-husband basically took what I would have gotten back in taxes for the two boys and paid it to me as if it was his own money for child support. I was just happy to finally get a decent chunk of money from him, so I didn't think this one tax year would be a big deal.
Of course with the latest stimulus checks issued being based on the 2019 tax returns, he is now getting $1,200 ($600 for each of the two boys) that I should be getting. After explaining this to him several times, he paid me $800 a few days ago ($400 short of what I was entitled). The worst part is with the next stimulus package potentially coming out at $1,400 per person, he will again get $2,800 of what should come to me since I supported the two boys financially and they lived with me and my wife since the end of 2018. I know I will likely get only a partial payment for that money at best with this deadbeat.
My issue is I want to call the IRS and get the ex-husband and myself to refile our 2019 taxes to correct the issue, but I worried that I may get in trouble for not correctly claiming the kids (and getting a $6,000 payment from the ex-husband right after he claimed them on his taxes).
Can I get in trouble for calling the IRS and trying to straighten all this out? I'm in dire need of some experienced advice to help with this. I guess I can call a tax attorney and figure it out, but I'm trying to save the money for the lawyer if I need to get him involved.
Thanks in advance.
I'm in a pretty shitty situation dealing with my wife's ex-husband when it comes to claiming their two children on tax returns. My wife's ex-husband is about as deadbeat of a father figure as it gets. He is years (not months) behind on child support because he doesn't keep a job for more than about 3 - 4 months out of a year, but that is not really what my issue is about.
Last year (during the beginning of 2020), he asked my wife if he could claim both of his boys on his tax return for the 2019 year (of course without contributing hardly anything of his share of child support, while the boys live with me for the entire year). My wife knew my answer would be a resounding NO, but she said she would ask me to be sure. By the time she asked me, the ex-husband already filed his taxes claiming the two boys without my permission. Of course I was furious. I guess he got an instant return on his taxes, but within a few weeks, he gave his wife a payment of $6,000 which we assumed was for back child support (he owed much more than that). I then decided to just not claim the two boys on my tax return (against my better judgement) to not have to deal with the issue of both he and I claiming the two boys. The ex-husband basically took what I would have gotten back in taxes for the two boys and paid it to me as if it was his own money for child support. I was just happy to finally get a decent chunk of money from him, so I didn't think this one tax year would be a big deal.
Of course with the latest stimulus checks issued being based on the 2019 tax returns, he is now getting $1,200 ($600 for each of the two boys) that I should be getting. After explaining this to him several times, he paid me $800 a few days ago ($400 short of what I was entitled). The worst part is with the next stimulus package potentially coming out at $1,400 per person, he will again get $2,800 of what should come to me since I supported the two boys financially and they lived with me and my wife since the end of 2018. I know I will likely get only a partial payment for that money at best with this deadbeat.
My issue is I want to call the IRS and get the ex-husband and myself to refile our 2019 taxes to correct the issue, but I worried that I may get in trouble for not correctly claiming the kids (and getting a $6,000 payment from the ex-husband right after he claimed them on his taxes).
Can I get in trouble for calling the IRS and trying to straighten all this out? I'm in dire need of some experienced advice to help with this. I guess I can call a tax attorney and figure it out, but I'm trying to save the money for the lawyer if I need to get him involved.
Thanks in advance.
This post was edited on 1/18/21 at 11:06 am
6
Posted on 1/18/21 at 11:17 am to TIGERSby10
You need to hire a CPA and/or tax attorney. You are now 6-8 layers deep in payments and claims making this worse with each passing day.
This post was edited on 1/18/21 at 11:18 am
Posted on 1/18/21 at 11:37 am to TIGERSby10
I know, very close second hand, that this issue is often times handled in the divorce agreement/property settlement.
The cheapest thing to do today is read that document and see if it deals with it.
You can file an amended 2019 return without asking the IRS but you really should get the advice of a CPA or tax lawyer that can look at your specific situation.
The cheapest thing to do today is read that document and see if it deals with it.
You can file an amended 2019 return without asking the IRS but you really should get the advice of a CPA or tax lawyer that can look at your specific situation.
This post was edited on 1/18/21 at 11:38 am
Posted on 1/18/21 at 11:43 am to TIGERSby10
The divorce decree (or other divorce papers) should have that all spelled out on who gets to claim the kids.. but since your wife hasn't followed the instruction from the decree I'm not sure what would happen...
One thing is for sure, I would never voluntarily invite the IRS into your affairs.. Probably seek advice from a tax attorney would be best. There may even be one on this board that can chime in.. Either way, good luck!!
One thing is for sure, I would never voluntarily invite the IRS into your affairs.. Probably seek advice from a tax attorney would be best. There may even be one on this board that can chime in.. Either way, good luck!!
Posted on 1/18/21 at 11:44 am to TIGERSby10
Resolving issues with the IRS is akin to pulling teeth while watching paint dry. Many years of experience backing this up..it could take quite a while. Personally, I would just let it go as it may not be worth the effort. Good luck.
Posted on 1/18/21 at 11:51 am to JDGTiger
quote:
JDGTiger
Posted on 1/18/21 at 12:01 pm to TIGERSby10
The stimulus checks were an advance payment of a credit on your 2020 taxes. So if you claim the kids on your 2020 taxes, and you did not already receive the stimulus checks for them, they will be credited against your 2020 tax amount owed.
The payments were sent out based on 2019 tax filings but if a person's tax situation changed, they do not owe the money back. So basically both parents (your wife and the kids' dad) will receive payments for the same kids. It's a loophole because these stimulus payments were rushed through so quickly.
I'd leave your 2019 taxes alone but make sure you file 2020 taxes ASAP before their dad does, otherwise you will have to go through the "who claims the kids?" question.
The IRS does not care what the divorce decree says, their determination is based on where the kids spent the most nights in a tax year. If you have proof the kids spent 184 nights or more at the home of their mother, she is able to claim the kids.
IRS Rules for Dependents of Divorced Individuals
The payments were sent out based on 2019 tax filings but if a person's tax situation changed, they do not owe the money back. So basically both parents (your wife and the kids' dad) will receive payments for the same kids. It's a loophole because these stimulus payments were rushed through so quickly.
I'd leave your 2019 taxes alone but make sure you file 2020 taxes ASAP before their dad does, otherwise you will have to go through the "who claims the kids?" question.
The IRS does not care what the divorce decree says, their determination is based on where the kids spent the most nights in a tax year. If you have proof the kids spent 184 nights or more at the home of their mother, she is able to claim the kids.
IRS Rules for Dependents of Divorced Individuals
This post was edited on 1/18/21 at 12:08 pm
Posted on 1/18/21 at 12:02 pm to TIGERSby10
You need to talk with an attorney and/or cpa. You are seeking a solution to an issue dealing in thousands (and if it goes on for long 10s of thousands). A simple sit down with either will at most cost hundreds. Don’t be “pennywise and pound foolish”
Posted on 1/18/21 at 12:40 pm to SalE
Thanks for all the replies to date. I doubt this clears anything up, but I'll add some more info just in case.
It didn't want to get the divorce decree involved because of how complicated it makes everything, but ...
They were divorced in Florida and had an original settlement of living within 5 miles of one another. The original document was set up for each to have the kids 50% of the time and pay 50% of the financial needs of the kids. I read the entire document and I don't recall it saying who had the right to claim the kids on their taxes. Maybe I need to read it again.
Not long after, the father got investigated through child services and told them to f*@k off and that the ex-wife could have the kids. All of this was documented by child services. The father then moved to Alabama and basically never inquired about the kids or sent any money for years.
My wife was left supporting the kids on her own and of course claiming them on her taxes. She stayed in Florida for a year or so, but then decided to move to LA to be closer to her family to help her out.
Roughly five or six years ago the dad wanted to start seeing the boys and began sending in very small amounts of child support (less than $1,000 a year), so my wife began extending visits to the father.
Note: I've started living with my wife and her 2 boys just over 2 years ago.
When I got involved, the father wanted to start seeing the boys more and more, but never wanted to help financially. It was my issue to deal with. I contacted a custody lawyer and she informed me that the Florida divorce papers are transferrable to LA, but since the father no longer lived close enough to split custody (he lives 5 hours from us) that my wife had no obligation to allow him visitation. She said to let the father and children speak on the phone, but we were not obligated to give visitation. I didn't want the two boys to not be able to spend time with their father, so we agreed that if he paid $500 a month for support, that we would allow the boys to visit him every other holiday and two weeks out of the summer. If he drove the 5 hours to visit on a weekend, he could get a hotel and spend the entire weekend with them as long as he had them back in time to not disrupt their schooling. This lasted less than half a year and then he stopped making payments for child support, having every excuse in the book (all while we kept letting the boys visit their dad).
To date, we have held our end of the agreement with visitation and phone conversations, but he pays very sparingly ($1,00 a year at best) until he paid the $6,000 to catch up for paying nothing for months at a time.
I was under the impression that if I was financially responsible for the boys all year then I had the right to claim them. It basically says this as you file your taxes.
It didn't want to get the divorce decree involved because of how complicated it makes everything, but ...
They were divorced in Florida and had an original settlement of living within 5 miles of one another. The original document was set up for each to have the kids 50% of the time and pay 50% of the financial needs of the kids. I read the entire document and I don't recall it saying who had the right to claim the kids on their taxes. Maybe I need to read it again.
Not long after, the father got investigated through child services and told them to f*@k off and that the ex-wife could have the kids. All of this was documented by child services. The father then moved to Alabama and basically never inquired about the kids or sent any money for years.
My wife was left supporting the kids on her own and of course claiming them on her taxes. She stayed in Florida for a year or so, but then decided to move to LA to be closer to her family to help her out.
Roughly five or six years ago the dad wanted to start seeing the boys and began sending in very small amounts of child support (less than $1,000 a year), so my wife began extending visits to the father.
Note: I've started living with my wife and her 2 boys just over 2 years ago.
When I got involved, the father wanted to start seeing the boys more and more, but never wanted to help financially. It was my issue to deal with. I contacted a custody lawyer and she informed me that the Florida divorce papers are transferrable to LA, but since the father no longer lived close enough to split custody (he lives 5 hours from us) that my wife had no obligation to allow him visitation. She said to let the father and children speak on the phone, but we were not obligated to give visitation. I didn't want the two boys to not be able to spend time with their father, so we agreed that if he paid $500 a month for support, that we would allow the boys to visit him every other holiday and two weeks out of the summer. If he drove the 5 hours to visit on a weekend, he could get a hotel and spend the entire weekend with them as long as he had them back in time to not disrupt their schooling. This lasted less than half a year and then he stopped making payments for child support, having every excuse in the book (all while we kept letting the boys visit their dad).
To date, we have held our end of the agreement with visitation and phone conversations, but he pays very sparingly ($1,00 a year at best) until he paid the $6,000 to catch up for paying nothing for months at a time.
I was under the impression that if I was financially responsible for the boys all year then I had the right to claim them. It basically says this as you file your taxes.
Posted on 1/18/21 at 1:11 pm to TIGERSby10
Honestly the divorce decree doesn't even matter if he is living in a different state. Read the link I posted above, specifically Table 3. "The child must have lived with you for more than half of the year." If their dad lives in AL and the kids live in LA, they obviously did not live with him for half the year.
If your wife is designated as the person to receive child support, she is the custodial parent as far as the IRS is concerned. For him to claim the kids, she needs to sign Form 8332 relinquishing her claim to them. Did she sign that form? I'm assuming not but basically he beat her to the punch by filing first.
Basically he used your/your wife's child tax credit to pay down part of his child support arrears. You can contact the IRS about it but I don't know if you gave up your chance to dispute when you filed without attempting to claim them then. The stimulus checks don't really play into it though, you'd be asking for the child tax credit that he took when he shouldn't have ($2,000 max per kid).
If your wife is designated as the person to receive child support, she is the custodial parent as far as the IRS is concerned. For him to claim the kids, she needs to sign Form 8332 relinquishing her claim to them. Did she sign that form? I'm assuming not but basically he beat her to the punch by filing first.
Basically he used your/your wife's child tax credit to pay down part of his child support arrears. You can contact the IRS about it but I don't know if you gave up your chance to dispute when you filed without attempting to claim them then. The stimulus checks don't really play into it though, you'd be asking for the child tax credit that he took when he shouldn't have ($2,000 max per kid).
This post was edited on 1/18/21 at 1:13 pm
Posted on 1/18/21 at 1:19 pm to TIGERSby10
Another question - when you say he paid your wife the $6000 this year, was that through the Attorney General child support payment system? Or just a cash/check payment to their mom?
If it didn't go through the child support system, it is just considered a gift and doesn't do anything to reduce his arrears. In that case, I'd definitely leave it alone with the IRS because he paid you more than you would have gotten through claiming them ($4k max) and it didn't reduce his arrears, so you're actually coming out ahead.
If it didn't go through the child support system, it is just considered a gift and doesn't do anything to reduce his arrears. In that case, I'd definitely leave it alone with the IRS because he paid you more than you would have gotten through claiming them ($4k max) and it didn't reduce his arrears, so you're actually coming out ahead.
Posted on 1/18/21 at 1:27 pm to TIGERSby10
OK. So there is a lot here.
First off, as a professional who sees this kind of stuff more than you might think, I am going to repeat the advice of others that you need to get a CPA who is experienced in dependent returns and resolutions involved and probably a family attorney as well. There are some legal issues here as well as some tax issues.
I also want to state that you, as mother's new husband, unless you have legally adopted these boys, YOU have no right whatsoever to claim anything for these boys. If your wife and you file a joint tax return, then your wife can claim these boys if certain measures are met (which based upon your responses, it sounds like they are). I understand that you are probably using the you/me words because you file with your wife and are probably bankrolling the kids expenses... but this is a situation where proper words and descriptions matter.
There are some tests (they were linked earlier in this thread) that the IRS determines who has the right to claim a dependent. It falls to whomever is determined to be the custodial parent. However, the custodial parent can waive the dependency claim in favor of the non-custodial parent. This waiver of claim is what is generally found in divorce decrees. If this happens, an IRS form is filed with the non-custodial parent's tax return. I am assuming none of this paperwork actually happened.
Due to the quirks in the stimulus bills that have been passed, your wife should still be able to claim the stimulus for the two boys, assuming she is deemed custodial parent in 2020, on your joint 2020 tax return.
I'd otherwise let sleeping dogs lie for 2019. Chalk it up to a life lesson learned.
Now, on the 2020 return, if he claims the dependents before your wife does, your wife's return (joint with you if that's happening) will get rejected because the dependents were already claimed. At that point, you may want to consider contacting the ex (this is where I would recommend you get a family law attorney involved) to have him amend his return to remove the dependents. Failing that, then your wife would need to paper file her/your joint tax return, claim the kids. At some point, the IRS will likely challenge this, and that's when your wife will need to be able to show proof that your wife is entitled to the dependents.
If the ex claims the kids incorrectly, it's going to be a PITA for your wife. Ultimately it will get corrected, but it's a long process. I'm sorry y'all are having to go through this.
First off, as a professional who sees this kind of stuff more than you might think, I am going to repeat the advice of others that you need to get a CPA who is experienced in dependent returns and resolutions involved and probably a family attorney as well. There are some legal issues here as well as some tax issues.
I also want to state that you, as mother's new husband, unless you have legally adopted these boys, YOU have no right whatsoever to claim anything for these boys. If your wife and you file a joint tax return, then your wife can claim these boys if certain measures are met (which based upon your responses, it sounds like they are). I understand that you are probably using the you/me words because you file with your wife and are probably bankrolling the kids expenses... but this is a situation where proper words and descriptions matter.
There are some tests (they were linked earlier in this thread) that the IRS determines who has the right to claim a dependent. It falls to whomever is determined to be the custodial parent. However, the custodial parent can waive the dependency claim in favor of the non-custodial parent. This waiver of claim is what is generally found in divorce decrees. If this happens, an IRS form is filed with the non-custodial parent's tax return. I am assuming none of this paperwork actually happened.
Due to the quirks in the stimulus bills that have been passed, your wife should still be able to claim the stimulus for the two boys, assuming she is deemed custodial parent in 2020, on your joint 2020 tax return.
I'd otherwise let sleeping dogs lie for 2019. Chalk it up to a life lesson learned.
Now, on the 2020 return, if he claims the dependents before your wife does, your wife's return (joint with you if that's happening) will get rejected because the dependents were already claimed. At that point, you may want to consider contacting the ex (this is where I would recommend you get a family law attorney involved) to have him amend his return to remove the dependents. Failing that, then your wife would need to paper file her/your joint tax return, claim the kids. At some point, the IRS will likely challenge this, and that's when your wife will need to be able to show proof that your wife is entitled to the dependents.
If the ex claims the kids incorrectly, it's going to be a PITA for your wife. Ultimately it will get corrected, but it's a long process. I'm sorry y'all are having to go through this.
This post was edited on 1/18/21 at 1:28 pm
Posted on 1/18/21 at 1:28 pm to Lightning
quote:
For him to claim the kids, she needs to sign Form 8332 relinquishing her claim to them. Did she sign that form?
Absolutely not.
quote:
I'm assuming not but basically he beat her to the punch by filing first.
I'm assuming just because he filed first does not give him the right to do so. He will always file first because he gets his only W-2 and then files, while I must wait for a few 1099s and other forms prior to filing.
From what I'm hearing, I probably should just forget about the 2019 tax year, correctly claim both boys for the 2020 year and every year thereafter, and this will result in me getting something for the stimulus check sent to the ex-husband (through credits on my taxes).
I 100% agree that I don't want to get involved with the IRS or a tax lawyer for that matter, unless I absolutely have to.
Posted on 1/18/21 at 1:32 pm to TIGERSby10
quote:
m assuming just because he filed first does not give him the right to do so.
Anyone can put anything they want on a tax return, and there are a few electronic checks that are done (such as verifying SSNs and verifying that no SSN has been listed on a previously filed tax return for that year). Later on, the IRS does matching and audits and whatnot, and can come back after the person if there was a mistake, and recapture any erroneous credits/refunds issued.
The system is set up with the idea that everyone is telling the truth, so the first person to claim the kids, is assumed to be the only person who can claim them. That of course isn't always correct, and that's when problems occur, as you are seeing.
Posted on 1/18/21 at 1:45 pm to LSUFanHouston
quote:
If your wife and you file a joint tax return, then your wife can claim these boys if certain measures are met (which based upon your responses, it sounds like they are). I understand that you are probably using the you/me words because you file with your wife and are probably bankrolling the kids expenses... but this is a situation where proper words and descriptions matter.
We file a "married filing jointly" return. My wife has no income. I was incorrectly saying I can claim & I'm owed money, but yes, it is my wife that is owed and we file jointly. It can also be easily proved that the 2 boys live with me and my wife, and I (me and my wife) are the financial supporters due to the ex-husband rarely sending any money. We document all received money.
Posted on 1/18/21 at 1:56 pm to TIGERSby10
The IP Pin program is now available to everyone. Apply for IP PINS for both of the boys. Once they are in place, no return using their SS#'s will be accepted electronically without the corresponding PIN.
This post was edited on 1/18/21 at 2:03 pm
Posted on 1/18/21 at 1:59 pm to TIGERSby10
quote:
We file a "married filing jointly" return. My wife has no income. I was incorrectly saying I can claim & I'm owed money, but yes, it is my wife that is owed and we file jointly. It can also be easily proved that the 2 boys live with me and my wife, and I (me and my wife) are the financial supporters due to the ex-husband rarely sending any money. We document all received money.
Based upon what you have stated in this thread, I think the facts are on your side. But again, the way the system is designed, if the ex files first and claims them, it's going to take some time for all this to be straightened out.
Also, I should add something. I (and other posters) said earlier that you will be able to claim the stimulus amounts and get them in 2020 return. That is correct. However, if ex also claims the kids on 2020, you are going to run into the same issues... you are going to have to paper-file and there will be delays in getting it resolved.
That's why it's really to everyone's best interest that the ex doesn't claim them at all in 2020, which again, may be reason to seek legal help.
Posted on 1/18/21 at 2:00 pm to HTXLSU
quote:
The IP Pin program is now available. Apply for IP PINS for both of the boys. Once they are in place, no return using their SS#'s will be accepted electronically without the corresponding PIN.
This is potentially a great long term solution, especially if this expansion works.
Posted on 1/18/21 at 2:37 pm to HTXLSU
quote:
The IP Pin program is now available to everyone. Apply for IP PINS for both of the boys. Once they are in place, no return using their SS#'s will be accepted electronically without the corresponding PIN.
Just researched your comments on getting a IP Pin #. While this is great advice, they also say it is a very rigorous process to stop identity theft. It is also only good for one year and you must reapply every year, unless you are a confirmed victims of identity theft. It may be easier to let the ex-husband file, get my electronic file rejected, send in the signed paper copy, and let the IRS investigate the issue, and deem me/my wife the victims (ex-husband is wrongfully filing) and then we automatically get IP Pins for the two boys.
I don't want to sound ungrateful, because I really appreciate the advice. I'm just typing this to help anyone else out that may be going through the same issue.
Posted on 1/18/21 at 2:49 pm to TIGERSby10
quote:
Just researched your comments on getting a IP Pin #. While this is great advice, they also say it is a very rigorous process to stop identity theft. It is also only good for one year and you must reapply every year, unless you are a confirmed victims of identity theft. It may be easier to let the ex-husband file, get my electronic file rejected, send in the signed paper copy, and let the IRS investigate the issue, and deem me/my wife the victims (ex-husband is wrongfully filing) and then we automatically get IP Pins for the two boys.
I don't want to sound ungrateful, because I really appreciate the advice. I'm just typing this to help anyone else out that may be going through the same issue.
Up until about a week or so ago, the only way to get an IP PIN was if you could prove either identity theft, or a false return filed under your name/SSN.
One of the biggest requests the IRS was getting, was to just allow anyone to apply for an IP PIN, and so they are now going to try that. It could be great for situations like this, but it's absolutely untested.
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