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Message
re: Let's play a game called Bitcoin Forensics
Posted on 3/22/13 at 9:32 pm to foshizzle
Posted on 3/22/13 at 9:32 pm to foshizzle
quote:
foshizzle
I wish everyone in bitcoin threads were as reasonable as you.
quote:
But as a store of value? Not really, so long as people can easily shift assets. I'm not worried much about bank stability b/c I invest in many different areas. And although I'm aware I can retain my claim on assets by good backups I'm not sure this is much better than just buying and stashing gold bars (although gold bars aren't as convertible, granted).
I completely understand this mindset but also hope you'll approach this from a different perspective. You, and most everyone that posts on the Money Board, are intelligent individuals, most of you probably have a bachelors degree, many of you probably have graduate degrees, many of you work in finance and understand markets and investments more than the vast majority of people on the planet.
So you know how to properly diversify, how to protect your assets, what investments are inflation proof, etc.
But what about the average working joe who works hard, makes enough money to get by, perhaps he even saves up some cash in a savings account, say 5 grand or less. But he doesn't know how to invest it. He doesn't understand stocks, he doesn't understand real estate, he doesn't even understand mutual funds. He does understand cash, though, and so he keeps his money in dollars. This is where he gets screwed. Every year that 5 grand is worth less and less. His bank only pays him .5% interest if he's lucky.
Wouldn't he benefit from a deflationary currency?
This post was edited on 3/22/13 at 9:33 pm
3
Posted on 3/22/13 at 10:38 pm to WikiTiger
so instead of just deferring to an expert and taking his money to some financial advisor and them sticking it in low risk blue chips, he should read a bunch of stuff on the internet from mostly unverifiable sources and buy an internet based digital currency that has never existed before and could possibly end up being worth nothing?
Because there's kind of a massive difference between the two questions, "would person x benefit from currency deflation?" and "should person x buy bitcoins?"
Because there's kind of a massive difference between the two questions, "would person x benefit from currency deflation?" and "should person x buy bitcoins?"
Posted on 3/22/13 at 11:10 pm to WikiTiger
quote:
But what about the average working joe
He doesn't understand stocks, he doesn't understand real estate, he doesn't even understand mutual funds
But he understands a non-physical currency of 0's & 1's that comes with algorithms and encrypted files, virtual wallets and virtual currency exchanges?!?
That is pathetic logic even for you!
ETA:
This post was edited on 3/22/13 at 11:13 pm
Posted on 3/23/13 at 12:29 am to LSURussian
quote:
The definition of pirate that you quoted can be summed up in one word: thieves.
quote:
Pirate parties support civil rights, direct democracy and participation, reform of copyright and patent law, free sharing of knowledge (Open content), information privacy, transparency, and freedom of information.
I know you're a smart guy, so I'll just chalk your summation up as a preconceived notion that you can't shake. I'm starting to see why Wiki refuses to respond to you. It's pointless.
Posted on 3/23/13 at 12:33 am to WikiTiger
quote:
But what about the average working joe
The average working joe isn't going to be buying bitcoins
Posted on 3/23/13 at 2:12 am to C
quote:
The average working joe isn't going to be buying bitcoins
Then bitcoins will never reach the level of general acceptance as a currency. Bitcoin users will have to convert to other forms of currency and that will result in arbitrage costs for transactions raising costs of doing business. There a downsides to all of the features that have been pointed out regarding bitcoins. When anyone points out those downsides the bitcoin promoters bury their heads in the sand and pretend reality can be ignored, or that bitcoins are so awesome that the downsides will be irrelevant without providing any reasons other than "you just don't understand the technology" when the issues aren't technologic but economic.
Posted on 3/23/13 at 10:46 am to Korkstand
quote:
I know you're a smart guy
If I were a liar I'd return the compliment.
You have your head buried in the sand if you don't see what that organization's real purpose is: to steal intellectual property from others without having to pay or work for it.
I have developed IP through many hours of hard work and sweat. The idea of a bunch of parasites thinking it should be their right to take what I've worked hard to develop without paying me for it pisses me off.
Posted on 3/23/13 at 12:50 pm to Korkstand
quote:How are information privacy and freedom of information consistent goals? The rank hypocrisy is that pirates want their information to remain private while having access to the information of others. They want privileges for themselves that they would deny others.
Pirate parties support civil rights, direct democracy and participation, reform of copyright and patent law, free sharing of knowledge (Open content), information privacy, transparency, and freedom of information.
Wiki doesn't respond because there is no defense for the indefensible.
Posted on 3/23/13 at 5:54 pm to LSURussian
quote:
If I were a liar I'd return the compliment
What would you say if you were an a-hole?
quote:
You have your head buried in the sand if you don't see what that organization's real purpose is: to steal intellectual property from others without having to pay or work for it.
I have developed IP through many hours of hard work and sweat. The idea of a bunch of parasites thinking it should be their right to take what I've worked hard to develop without paying me for it pisses me off.
I'm not a member of the pirate party, so I'm not sure why I'm defending them, but here goes.
If someone has information that would benefit all of humanity, many would argue that it should be accessible to everyone. When given the choice between making money or improving the lives of everyone, different people make different choices. Whether the knowledge would have come about without the profit motive is a different argument.
I could argue that the availability of information is one of the main differences between us and the people of North Korea. If they knew what we know, they probably wouldn't be so easily brainwashed. The only difference in our opinions is really how much information should be free and open.
But this whole tangent conversation is neither here nor there. I know that Bitcoins aren't going to overtake fiat money any time soon, but the concept of it is based on the idea of true freedom.
Posted on 3/23/13 at 6:05 pm to Poodlebrain
quote:
How are information privacy and freedom of information consistent goals? The rank hypocrisy is that pirates want their information to remain private while having access to the information of others. They want privileges for themselves that they would deny others.
You don't think there is a difference between personal information and information that is beneficial to society?
Posted on 3/23/13 at 6:11 pm to Korkstand
quote:
What would you say if you were an a-hole?
Posted on 3/23/13 at 7:10 pm to Korkstand
quote:Who gets to decide which is which? And, no I don't believe there is a difference. If I discovered a process to turn a plant extract into a miracle cure for every disease known to man do I have any obligation to share that information with anyone? No, I should be able to profit from my discovery to my heart's content, or I should be able to deny society the benefits of my discovery if I choose to do so.
You don't think there is a difference between personal information and information that is beneficial to society?
Posted on 3/23/13 at 8:05 pm to Poodlebrain
quote:
Who gets to decide which is which? And, no I don't believe there is a difference. If I discovered a process to turn a plant extract into a miracle cure for every disease known to man do I have any obligation to share that information with anyone? No, I should be able to profit from my discovery to my heart's content, or I should be able to deny society the benefits of my discovery if I choose to do so.
There is a very simple way to determine the type of information in question: does it apply to or describe one individual person or group, or does it (or can it) be applied to anyone? And there is a huge difference between a piece of information describing my personal preferences, for instance, and something like your example.
As for your miracle cure, whether you prefer to profit from it or share the knowledge freely with the world is exactly the difference between your ideals and those of the pirate party.
Posted on 3/23/13 at 10:04 pm to Korkstand
As I thought, you claim the right to decide. You can take what you want and deny what you want. That is exactly what I advocated for everyone.
The difference is I at least profess to have respect for the rights of others while you profess the desire to circumvent the rights of others.
The Pirate Party has no better claim to virtue than the Democrats who base their claims on their intent rather than the results of their policies. What you view as altruism I view as selfishness. They want things they feel entitled to that they have done nothing to earn.
The difference is I at least profess to have respect for the rights of others while you profess the desire to circumvent the rights of others.
The Pirate Party has no better claim to virtue than the Democrats who base their claims on their intent rather than the results of their policies. What you view as altruism I view as selfishness. They want things they feel entitled to that they have done nothing to earn.
Posted on 3/23/13 at 10:39 pm to Korkstand
quote:
What would you say if you were an a-hole?
I'd say I would have chosen the screen name "Korkstand."
:rimshot:
Posted on 3/23/13 at 10:44 pm to Poodlebrain
quote:
The difference is I at least profess to have respect for the rights of others while you profess the desire to circumvent the rights of others.
I haven't professed anything. I have only attempted to explain a little bit of what the pirate party is about. Actually, I don't know much more about it than just the basic ideals that I've described.
I simply tried to explain a different way of thinking, but of course you guys think the right way, and everyone else thinks the wrong way.
Myself, I respect the right of the guy who discovers the miracle cure to do as he wishes, but I would hope that too many people don't die unnecessarily before he decides he's made enough money. We all benefit from the knowledge that has been shared and passed along for thousands of years, and it only seems right to pay it forward.
But again, this is neither here nor there in this discussion. It's just a weak attempt to associate Bitcoins with the scary "pirates". They are separate things, and each can fail or succeed independent of the other.
Bitcoins, for the time being, are a huge experiment, but they are at least a proof of concept that such a currency can work.
Posted on 3/23/13 at 10:52 pm to LSURussian
quote:
I'd say I would have chosen the screen name "Korkstand."
Good thing you're smart, because you're not funny.
Posted on 3/23/13 at 10:52 pm to Korkstand
quote:
Myself, I respect the right of the guy who discovers the miracle cure to do as he wishes, but I would hope that too many people don't die unnecessarily before he decides he's made enough money
It's revealing that you only argue about a life saving discovery as your moral highground position and not about the most common types of IP piracy such as stealing entertainment and technological properties.
Posted on 3/23/13 at 11:16 pm to LSURussian
quote:
It's revealing that you only argue about a life saving discovery as your moral highground position and not about the most common types of IP piracy such as stealing entertainment and technological properties.
That was Poodle's example, not mine.
As for entertainment and technological IP, I don't have strong feelings either way. They just don't matter much in the grand scheme of things. I believe people should profit from their creations, and if they didn't there would be many fewer creations. That's just the way it has to work.
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