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Started By
Message
Elder Care/Medicaid question
Posted on 3/6/24 at 11:48 am
Posted on 3/6/24 at 11:48 am
My mother is currently in a nursing home. Her medicare runs out in a few weeks and we are looking to apply to medicaid ASAP. We will be meeting with a lawyer later this week.
My parents are not super wealthy but they're not poor either. Right now they're about 90-100k over the 154k cap. We have some ideas to deal with that and I'm sure the lawyer will have plenty as well. But what really concerns me is the five year look back period. My parents have been extremely generous, not only to family members, but to charitable organizations, and I've read that everything is on the table as far as medicaid is concerned.
Examples: They've given the grandkids a hundred dollars each every month since they were born. They're all college age now. They bought them each a new laptop when they started college. When my sister flies home for a visit, they pay her air fare. I'm sure they've given away a lot I'm not even aware of. Not to mention regular donations to their church and any number of other charities.
Then there's the housekeeper, yard man, etc. A hundred here and there for work done, but it's just a check with their name on it. They can't prove they paid for work done. Is medicaid going to assume everything is an impermissible gift until proven otherwise?
How screwed are my parents by their generosity? Am I getting all worked over nothing? How fine toothed a comb is medicaid going to go over their finances with?
My parents are not super wealthy but they're not poor either. Right now they're about 90-100k over the 154k cap. We have some ideas to deal with that and I'm sure the lawyer will have plenty as well. But what really concerns me is the five year look back period. My parents have been extremely generous, not only to family members, but to charitable organizations, and I've read that everything is on the table as far as medicaid is concerned.
Examples: They've given the grandkids a hundred dollars each every month since they were born. They're all college age now. They bought them each a new laptop when they started college. When my sister flies home for a visit, they pay her air fare. I'm sure they've given away a lot I'm not even aware of. Not to mention regular donations to their church and any number of other charities.
Then there's the housekeeper, yard man, etc. A hundred here and there for work done, but it's just a check with their name on it. They can't prove they paid for work done. Is medicaid going to assume everything is an impermissible gift until proven otherwise?
How screwed are my parents by their generosity? Am I getting all worked over nothing? How fine toothed a comb is medicaid going to go over their finances with?
6
Posted on 3/6/24 at 12:36 pm to Jim Rockford
I know there's a guy who practices elder law in here. I hope he sees this.
Posted on 3/6/24 at 1:06 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
But what really concerns me is the five year look back period.
Sorry, but that ship has sailed.
What do you mean that her Medicare runs out in a few weeks?
Posted on 3/6/24 at 1:17 pm to La Place Mike
She went in for rehab àfter a hospitalization. She's still too frail to return home and Medicare only pays for 100 days of skilled nursing.
Posted on 3/6/24 at 1:36 pm to Jim Rockford
You will pay the daily rate until she is able to be released
About 200.00 a day (a few years ago)
Still need to meet with lawyer to help get things in place for the future if you think they will still be alive in 5 years
When we did it for my Grandpa it was around 11k to have all the trusts done
About 200.00 a day (a few years ago)
Still need to meet with lawyer to help get things in place for the future if you think they will still be alive in 5 years
When we did it for my Grandpa it was around 11k to have all the trusts done
Posted on 3/6/24 at 2:16 pm to LSUJML
She's never going to be released, TBH. She's 85 with Epilepsy, the beginnings of dementia and a disintegrated hip she can't have replaced because she wouldn't survive the surgery. It kills me to say it, but it's the truth.
Posted on 3/6/24 at 4:06 pm to Jim Rockford
I’m very sorry
IIRC
The elder law lawyer can look at finances & do the calculations to see if Medicare will cover anything
My Grandpa had money so he was 5 years out after the trusts were done before Medicare would cover anything
My mom had to keep his checking account below 2000.00 so when his social security was deposited she would have to write check to nursing home so it would be cleared before the 30th which was when they look at balances
He passed before the 5 years was up but with everything being in trusts we didn’t have to go through probate
I am not sure if this is an option but I’d ask the lawyer about a medical divorce as an option, I’m not sure if it would make a difference in this situation or not or even if it’s something they would be willing to do
Good Luck
IIRC
The elder law lawyer can look at finances & do the calculations to see if Medicare will cover anything
My Grandpa had money so he was 5 years out after the trusts were done before Medicare would cover anything
My mom had to keep his checking account below 2000.00 so when his social security was deposited she would have to write check to nursing home so it would be cleared before the 30th which was when they look at balances
He passed before the 5 years was up but with everything being in trusts we didn’t have to go through probate
I am not sure if this is an option but I’d ask the lawyer about a medical divorce as an option, I’m not sure if it would make a difference in this situation or not or even if it’s something they would be willing to do
Good Luck
Posted on 3/6/24 at 4:23 pm to Jim Rockford
State? I do a lot of elder law. What you can/can't do is really state dependent.
Easiest way to protect the money here in FL would be a personal services contract. Pretty sure you can do that in LA too if they live there.
100k is very, very easy to protect.
Easiest way to protect the money here in FL would be a personal services contract. Pretty sure you can do that in LA too if they live there.
100k is very, very easy to protect.
This post was edited on 3/6/24 at 4:25 pm
Posted on 3/6/24 at 4:37 pm to TheOcean
I
Thanks. I'm more worried about getting penalized from the look back period. Any thoughts on that? Louisiana, btw.
Thanks. I'm more worried about getting penalized from the look back period. Any thoughts on that? Louisiana, btw.
This post was edited on 3/6/24 at 4:38 pm
Posted on 3/6/24 at 4:41 pm to Jim Rockford
Something like a personal services contract doesn't interfere with the look back period. It's a FMV exchange of services for money based on the Medicaid applicants life expectancy. Here in FL we can draft them with a kid or local family member as the caregiver and protect 100 to 150k pretty easily.
Posted on 3/6/24 at 4:48 pm to TheOcean
What I'm asking about is being penalized several months for gifts given during the look back period. There weren't any 10k but there have been a lot in the hundreds and a few over a thousand. How closely do they analyze financial transactions?
Posted on 3/6/24 at 4:51 pm to Jim Rockford
Depends on the state. FL only looks at 3 months of statements. Gifts are a no go, but worst case scenario they might get penalized for a month
Posted on 3/6/24 at 4:58 pm to TheOcean
Thanks. That's reassuring.
Posted on 3/6/24 at 5:20 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
She went in for rehab àfter a hospitalization. She's still too frail to return home and Medicare only pays for 100 days of skilled nursing.
I see. Sorry brother. It's a tough spot.
Posted on 3/6/24 at 6:17 pm to Jim Rockford
Is this one of the cases where a “divorce” is financially advantageous?
Posted on 3/6/24 at 7:45 pm to TheOcean
quote:
Depends on the state. FL only looks at 3 months of statements. Gifts are a no go, but worst case scenario they might get penalized for a month
They still have a 5 year look back though.
What they’re entitled to do and what they actually do are often two different things though.
Posted on 3/6/24 at 8:08 pm to Jim Rockford
Have you seen facilities that accept Medicaid patients? You need to find a way to pay for her care
Posted on 3/6/24 at 8:26 pm to tygerfan1
What state are you in?
The $100,000 over can be dealt with easily. A promissory note is probably the easiest way.
The monthly hundred dollar gifts most likely won’t be an issue. What state are you in and I can give you more advice
The $100,000 over can be dealt with easily. A promissory note is probably the easiest way.
The monthly hundred dollar gifts most likely won’t be an issue. What state are you in and I can give you more advice
Posted on 3/6/24 at 9:29 pm to Allthatfades
Following. MIL in nursing home starting to go private pay.
Posted on 3/7/24 at 4:41 pm to Jim Rockford
Get an Elder Law/Medicaid lawyer yesterday.
Check reviews online today and tonight. Can't hurt to see what others in your area have experienced.
Then make the call. Take that step forward.
My brother and I just set up an irrevocable trust about 5 months ago with our parents. We should have done it years ago, as there's a 5 yr lookback here in Arkansas. Knock on wood, they are both in relatively good health now, but in their 70's. So, who knows what could happen, right?
Try to write down as many questions as possible and take notes when you speak to someone!
Ours cost us $10,500, as we added in some extra protection for my brother and I regarding unforeseen divorces and future lawsuits. That's something to ask about as well.
Good luck!!!!!
Check reviews online today and tonight. Can't hurt to see what others in your area have experienced.
Then make the call. Take that step forward.
My brother and I just set up an irrevocable trust about 5 months ago with our parents. We should have done it years ago, as there's a 5 yr lookback here in Arkansas. Knock on wood, they are both in relatively good health now, but in their 70's. So, who knows what could happen, right?
Try to write down as many questions as possible and take notes when you speak to someone!
Ours cost us $10,500, as we added in some extra protection for my brother and I regarding unforeseen divorces and future lawsuits. That's something to ask about as well.
Good luck!!!!!
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