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Can Someone Explain Selling Puts?

Posted on 5/16/13 at 11:39 pm
Posted by ThaBigFella
baton rouge
Member since Apr 2006
2043 posts
Posted on 5/16/13 at 11:39 pm
I read seeking alpha alot, and all the writers constantly talk about how they sell puts bc its a low risk way to buy stocks they don't mind owning and generate income at the same time. I've read around and basically understand the gist but am still confused about how it works bc i look at my etrade for say Phillip Morris, my biggest holding and I see

$92.50 sept 21, 2013 Put @ 2.70 then i see buy open,sell open,buy close, sell close

can someone correct me if im wrong but from what I understood reading around this would either allow me to purchase phillip morris for $92.50 per share or collect $2.70/share in 3 month in option premium? That sounds like a win win.......is that how it works?

Also what quantity would you buy to say buy 1000 shares im reading 10 contract (using round number) and what order type would you choose to sell puts and accomplish that?

Thanks alot, i always wondered about what those authors meant, just never really dug into it till recently, and yes i am an amateur to this and am just looking for an understanding of how selling puts is a low risk way to buy stocks i was already going to buy as all the authors claim

So basically im trying to understand my options

1)collect $2700 on 1000 shares immediately and if it exceeds $92.50 on sept 21 I walk away with $2700 in 3 months

2)stock drops below $92.50 on september 21 and I own 1000 shares at basically $89.80 counting my premium

is this correct? Also I read you collect the dividend when selling puts?
This post was edited on 5/17/13 at 12:54 am
Posted by LSURussian
Member since Feb 2005
135046 posts
Posted on 5/17/13 at 7:28 am to
Before I go into a long explanation I want to make sure I understand your question.

You're asking about the process of selling (writing) covered put options, correct?

You're not asking about buying (owning) put options but selling them, right?
Posted by ThaBigFella
baton rouge
Member since Apr 2006
2043 posts
Posted on 5/17/13 at 8:00 am to
Ya Russian I really don't understand the terminology but on seeking alpha all the writers on my long term holds suggest "selling puts" to generate income and own the stock you wanted to buy anyways at a cheaper price..,,,thanks a lot man, I get the concept just not really sure the terminology and which options to choose on etrade....I get either the stock hits x price by x time and u keep the premium or you buy it for a set price and keep the premium if it goes below.....sounds like a double win for a stock I would have bought today anyways

I know options are a good way to lose your arse so I never cared to learn about them, but from what these authors are saying, the worst case scenario is i purchase stock i wanted for a long term hold anyways at a cheaper price.....is this a correct understanding on my part? I have alot of cash in my account I guess would it be cash secured puts then since it wouldnt be on margin?

The philip morris example i listed above was $92.50 by sept 21 i think for $2.70 so i know i dont really get it, but doesnt that mean for 10 contracts(1000 shares) i collect $2700 immediately and if it doesnt go below $92.50 by september(which it wont bc they boost dividend then) then I walk away with an easy $2700/gain.......and if somehow it does then I buy 1000 shares for $92,50 and keep the premium so my net cost is $89,80......thats what im looking to do?
This post was edited on 5/17/13 at 8:07 am
Posted by LSURussian
Member since Feb 2005
135046 posts
Posted on 5/17/13 at 8:29 am to
A put is an option to sell, not an option to buy.
Posted by OnTheBrink
TN
Member since Mar 2012
5428 posts
Posted on 5/17/13 at 8:30 am to
quote:

Before I go into a long explanation I want to make sure I understand your question.


quote:

A put is an option to sell, not an option to buy.


Posted by ThaBigFella
baton rouge
Member since Apr 2006
2043 posts
Posted on 5/17/13 at 8:41 am to
Posted by Cmlsu5618
Destin, FL
Member since Sep 2010
3763 posts
Posted on 5/17/13 at 8:42 am to
(no message)
This post was edited on 5/17/13 at 9:41 am
Posted by OnTheBrink
TN
Member since Mar 2012
5428 posts
Posted on 5/17/13 at 8:44 am to
I hate how SA has taken away the free articles and comment section. I know it's still free, but I am too lazy to register.

Also, options are way beyond me. I have asked about it on here before and left the thread more confused then when I started it.
Posted by ThaBigFella
baton rouge
Member since Apr 2006
2043 posts
Posted on 5/17/13 at 8:59 am to
the type of option im interested in is the no-risk type the authors mention. If I wanted to buy Phillip Morris at $95.74 today then the $2.70 premium on the sept 2013 is fine bc either I

1)make $2700 on 1000 shares
2)buy 1000 shares @ $92,50 and keep $2700 on top

That's the way Im understanding it, im just confused on whether I understand it correctly haha and if i do which of the zillion options etrade offers would i be looking

SA is incredible, definitely worth the free registration ha
This post was edited on 5/17/13 at 9:00 am
Posted by Cmlsu5618
Destin, FL
Member since Sep 2010
3763 posts
Posted on 5/17/13 at 9:04 am to
quote:

option im interested in is the no-risk type


I'm sorry but this is the fundamental flaw in your thought process.
This post was edited on 5/17/13 at 9:41 am
Posted by OnTheBrink
TN
Member since Mar 2012
5428 posts
Posted on 5/17/13 at 9:07 am to
quote:

the type of option im interested in is the no-risk type


Somebody will correct me, but I believe there are always risks.
Posted by sneakytiger
Member since Oct 2007
2502 posts
Posted on 5/17/13 at 9:10 am to
The risk is that you have to pay $92.50 for PM shares with a market value less than the strike price and your premium collected. Definitely not risk free.
This post was edited on 5/17/13 at 9:11 am
Posted by ThaBigFella
baton rouge
Member since Apr 2006
2043 posts
Posted on 5/17/13 at 9:23 am to
thats fine thats a risk im willing to take bc I have tons of shares from the $40 range on up, it wouldnt hurt my avg price, and since the dividend will be raised in september if i do somehow have to purchase shares for $92.50 + collect $2.70 I'd be buying shares for $89.90 and at that point they'd have a $3.76 dividend so Id be collecting 4% annually, thats AWESOME I hope it happens

like I said, Id buy it today at near $96 so at $92.50 thats a steal to me but my selling point is after i die
This post was edited on 5/17/13 at 9:25 am
Posted by LSURussian
Member since Feb 2005
135046 posts
Posted on 5/17/13 at 9:31 am to
quote:

Can Someone Explain Selling Puts?
the type of option im interested in is the no-risk type the authors mention. If I wanted to buy Phillip Morris at $95.74 today then the $2.70 premium on the sept 2013 is fine bc either I


It's Friday and my brain is fried from reading bitcoin threads so I'm not 100% comprehending what you are asking.

I'll only make one comment about your "no risk" statement.

If you sell a counterparty a put option that means you agree to buy the security from the counterparty at the strike price if he exercises his put option.

So, using your example, if PM drops to $80/share (for example), and the counterparty exercises his put option which you sold to him, you must buy his PM shares at $92.50. So you are buying PM at $12.50 more per share than you can turn around and sell the shares for immediately. Even with the $2.70/share premium you collected on selling the option, you still have a potential opportunity cost loss of $9.80 share ($12.50-$2.70).

That is NOT "no risk."
Posted by LSURussian
Member since Feb 2005
135046 posts
Posted on 5/17/13 at 9:37 am to
quote:

they'd have a $3.76 dividend
Option prices are adjusted for declared dividends relative to the ex-dividend date.
Posted by ThaBigFella
baton rouge
Member since Apr 2006
2043 posts
Posted on 5/17/13 at 9:40 am to
I got ya russian, there is a risk in that sense but I feel confident about that price point on a 20 year hold so i dont particularly care.

I guess im just interested in how I would go about executing this transaction on etrade, I just got upgraded to level 3 options on my account and there are just so many chains and options and like i mentioned I dont get the 4 order types sell close,buy close,etc etc
Posted by CHSBears
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2007
793 posts
Posted on 5/17/13 at 9:44 am to
I am assuming the OP has shares of PM. My suggestion is if he whats to increase current income from PM, and does not seem to care if the option is called or not. Sell covered calls pretty far out of the money, collect the premium and live another day.
Posted by Broke
AKA Buttercup
Member since Sep 2006
65456 posts
Posted on 5/17/13 at 9:46 am to
quote:

I guess im just interested in how I would go about executing this transaction on etrade, I just got upgraded to level 3 options on my account and there are just so many chains and options and like i mentioned I dont get the 4 order types sell close,buy close,etc etc


Just reading this thread, you do not need to be fricking with options. I do this for a living and I still hate doing options.
Posted by LSURussian
Member since Feb 2005
135046 posts
Posted on 5/17/13 at 9:49 am to
quote:

I guess im just interested in how I would go about executing this transaction on etrade


It's your money, but I'm not sure you're ready to be writing (selling) options just yet.
Posted by Broke
AKA Buttercup
Member since Sep 2006
65456 posts
Posted on 5/17/13 at 9:51 am to
quote:

It's your money, but I'm not sure you're ready to be writing (selling) options just yet.


What he said.

This guy is gonna end up buying 5000 shares of stock priced 10% above market value
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