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Started By
Message
Bonds. Explanation needed.
Posted on 5/5/15 at 7:35 am
Posted on 5/5/15 at 7:35 am
After perusing my Acorns statement I noticed that the corporate bond that I own distributes monthly.
So I looked up a few bond indexes and apparently most, if not all, pay out monthly.
Is this what is called a bond coupon?
Since I like passive income it made me want to buy some investment grade long term bonds, but then I read how bonds will go down in value if interest rates increase...This made me think that buying Vanguard's long term bond index VLBTX is a bad idea.
But short term bonds provide low returns, so how do you win at bonds? Do people buy them like they'd buy T or GE and reap the benefits of steady dividends (coupons?...in this case)?
Any explanation is appreciated, and feel free to tell me more.
So I looked up a few bond indexes and apparently most, if not all, pay out monthly.
Is this what is called a bond coupon?
Since I like passive income it made me want to buy some investment grade long term bonds, but then I read how bonds will go down in value if interest rates increase...This made me think that buying Vanguard's long term bond index VLBTX is a bad idea.
But short term bonds provide low returns, so how do you win at bonds? Do people buy them like they'd buy T or GE and reap the benefits of steady dividends (coupons?...in this case)?
Any explanation is appreciated, and feel free to tell me more.
This post was edited on 5/5/15 at 7:37 am
Posted on 5/5/15 at 8:06 am to bayoubengals88
You have a thread stickied so you might want to update it since you are the one who started it. I'm about to add some RE links as well.
Posted on 5/5/15 at 8:07 am to bayoubengals88
Yes, that's the bond coupon of the bond.
Posted on 5/5/15 at 8:21 am to Fat Bastard
I've been thinking about it. I was unemployed when I made that thread...I'm now very employed 

Posted on 5/5/15 at 8:33 am to bayoubengals88
Aren't you in your mid 20's?
As I've mentioned before when you were really caught up on blue chips, most would suggest at your age that you should be looking at equity funds. Forget about the income for now and look for some serious growth.
As I've mentioned before when you were really caught up on blue chips, most would suggest at your age that you should be looking at equity funds. Forget about the income for now and look for some serious growth.
Posted on 5/5/15 at 8:36 am to bayoubengals88
Right now is not a very good time to be in bond markets. There's very little upside with interest rates already so low and the downside is pretty high. Love the concept, but it practice they are not a very great investment tool at this point, especially for someone in their 20's. Possibly some riskier municipal's that have tax incentives could be worth your time.
Posted on 5/5/15 at 8:42 am to bayoubengals88
In general there are two types of bonds: Zero-Coupon Bonds and Coupon Bonds.
Bond Terminology:
Face Value = Notional amount used to calculate interest payments
Coupon Rate = Determines the amount of each coupon payment, expressed as an APR with the appropriate compounding rate
Coupon Payment = (Coupon Rate*Face Value) / Number of Coupon Payments per Year
Yield to Maturity (YTM) = Internal Rate of Return (IRR) of the Coupon Bond
Zero-Coupon Bond:
- Pay face value at maturity
- No coupon interest payments
If a one year zero-coupon bond with face value of $100 has a price of $96.62, then its YTM can be calculated as follows:
Price = Face Value/(1+YTM)^n
96.62 = 100/(1+YTM)^1
This gives a YTM of 3.5%
Coupon Bonds:
- Pay face value at maturity
- Pay regular coupon interest payments
Let's say you buy a 5-year US treasury bond of $1000 with coupon rate of 5% and semi-annual coupons, then the coupon payments you will receive every six months can be calculated as follows:
Coupon Payment = (Coupon Rate*Face Value) / Number of Coupon Payments per Year = (5%*1000)/2 = $25
The price and YTM formula for a coupon bond is pretty complicated and you will need Excel to solve it. If you want me to show you can example of that, I'd be happy to.
Bond Terminology:
Face Value = Notional amount used to calculate interest payments
Coupon Rate = Determines the amount of each coupon payment, expressed as an APR with the appropriate compounding rate
Coupon Payment = (Coupon Rate*Face Value) / Number of Coupon Payments per Year
Yield to Maturity (YTM) = Internal Rate of Return (IRR) of the Coupon Bond
Zero-Coupon Bond:
- Pay face value at maturity
- No coupon interest payments
If a one year zero-coupon bond with face value of $100 has a price of $96.62, then its YTM can be calculated as follows:
Price = Face Value/(1+YTM)^n
96.62 = 100/(1+YTM)^1
This gives a YTM of 3.5%
Coupon Bonds:
- Pay face value at maturity
- Pay regular coupon interest payments
Let's say you buy a 5-year US treasury bond of $1000 with coupon rate of 5% and semi-annual coupons, then the coupon payments you will receive every six months can be calculated as follows:
Coupon Payment = (Coupon Rate*Face Value) / Number of Coupon Payments per Year = (5%*1000)/2 = $25
The price and YTM formula for a coupon bond is pretty complicated and you will need Excel to solve it. If you want me to show you can example of that, I'd be happy to.
This post was edited on 5/5/15 at 8:55 am
Posted on 5/5/15 at 8:51 am to euphemus
quote:
The price and YTM formula for a coupon bond is pretty complicated and you will need Excel to solve it.
Or a BA II Plus/HP 12C

Posted on 5/5/15 at 8:51 am to euphemus
(no message)
This post was edited on 5/5/15 at 8:55 am
Posted on 5/5/15 at 8:51 am to euphemus
(no message)
This post was edited on 5/5/15 at 8:57 am
Posted on 5/5/15 at 9:00 am to kennypowers816
quote:Yes, 26.
As I've mentioned before when you were really caught up on blue chips, most would suggest at your age that you should be looking at equity funds. Forget about the income for now and look for some serious growth.
You're right. I'm now pro index funds or high yield ETFs having gotten out of all my blue chips.
I am just curious about opening up a small bond position at some point.
Posted on 5/5/15 at 9:05 am to bayoubengals88
quote:
You're right. I'm now pro index funds or high yield ETFs having gotten out of all my blue chips.
I am just curious about opening up a small bond position at some point.
Just remember the price of the bond is only relevant if you plan on trading it. If you expect your children to go to college in 20 years and get a 20 year bond, you will get the entire amount in 20 years. If interest rates increase, they will sell for less if you need to get your money out in 10 years, but you will be given the actual amount you expected if you hold till maturity. It's just relatively less desirable if interest rates in the market are higher.
ex: why would I buy a bond with a 4% interest rate when the going rate is 6%?
This post was edited on 5/5/15 at 9:06 am
Posted on 5/5/15 at 9:17 am to SouthOfSouth
quote:So buying a long term bond is always a complete guess?
ex: why would I buy a bond with a 4% interest rate when the going rate is 6%?
Posted on 5/5/15 at 9:28 am to bayoubengals88
quote:
So buying a long term bond is always a complete guess?
Buying bonds can be a great tool if you want a way to make a smaller, but less risky return for a given time period.
If you buy a $1,000, 10 year bond at a 5% interest rate, you will get $50 per year for 10 years, and $1,000 in 10 years. That isn't a guess.
The guess is if you decide to sell it in 5 years.
If market interest rates moved from 5% to 6%, you would sell that $1,000 bond for less than $1,000. If the market interest rate moved to 4%, you would sell that bond for more than 1k at year 5.
That is where the guess is, but there is no guess at all if you plan to hold till maturity. Unless the company defaults, you will get exactly what was stated (with the one exception if there is a clause allowing for early payment, think refinancing mortgages but for the company).
This post was edited on 5/5/15 at 9:30 am
Posted on 5/5/15 at 9:32 am to bayoubengals88
You're not buying a bond for capital appreciation, you're buying it for income..
Just as if you bought a dairy cow for milk, you don't necessarily care what the price of beef is doing because you're goal is the milk production from that cow.
Just as if you bought a dairy cow for milk, you don't necessarily care what the price of beef is doing because you're goal is the milk production from that cow.
Posted on 5/5/15 at 9:40 am to Shepherd88
quote:
Just as if you bought a dairy cow for milk, you don't necessarily care what the price of beef is doing because you're goal is the milk production from that cow.
Good analogy.
And to the OP, as South said...
quote:
Unless the company defaults, you will get exactly what was stated
This is the only variable if you are definitely holding the bond to maturity and hence the ratings.
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