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re: “Biden is planning a capital gains tax hike to as high as 43.4% for wealthy Americans”
Posted on 4/23/21 at 11:27 am to RebelExpress38
Posted on 4/23/21 at 11:27 am to RebelExpress38
quote:This objection is fair and it's an objection that I agree with. I do not have much faith in our government to get the job done, but it also wasn't my aim to address this issue.
The Social Contract you are alluding to requires personal responsibility as the bedrock of society for it to all work. You won't find a single conservative who complains about supporting people who cannot take care of themselves, but we all know that is not how the current "safety net" is being used. The idea of personal responsibility has been replaced with entitlement and it is the reason why no matter how pure our "liberal society" intentions are with wealth redistribution in the name of justice, the problem of poverty has not gone away. If these programs did what politicians claim, why do they keep growing each year, and keep requiring more money? We need more than good intentions to actually solve the problem.
quote:Again, I wish our system worked better. My only objection to anything you said is that 43% on capital gains for people who earn more than 1 million dollars is "taxing people to death."
Taxing people to death will not do what you think it will.
That's really all I'm saying here. It's not, and historically, it's been much worse.
Granted, our government was much more efficient historically as well.
1
Posted on 4/23/21 at 11:39 am to RebelExpress38
quote:Correct, and four years later, it looked like this:
If you think that you are immune, remember that when federal income tax first passed it was like 7% for the highest bracket and 1% for the lowest. This is only the start.
...And that didn't really change until the late 1980s.
This post was edited on 4/23/21 at 11:40 am
Posted on 4/23/21 at 11:39 am to bayoubengals88
quote:
but it also wasn't my aim to address this issue.
Then what is the issue? You just don't like that someone else has more money than you? If you are not taxing the rich to redistribute their wealth then why are you wanting to tax people?
quote:
historically, it's been much worse.
The "historically it has been worse" argument is extremely weak when you are trying to justify doubling someones taxes. I could just say historically, income taxes used to be 0% so you should be happy you get anything.
Posted on 4/23/21 at 11:44 am to RebelExpress38
I will again speculate that if this hike goes through unaltered (it absolutely won't) the vast majority of America would remain unaffected
Aside from the number of licked boots, of course
Aside from the number of licked boots, of course
Posted on 4/23/21 at 11:48 am to RebelExpress38
quote:What?! Does this seem like my tone?
You just don't like that someone else has more money than you?
quote:Who said anything about me wanting to tax people?
If you are not taxing the rich to redistribute their wealth then why are you wanting to tax people?
quote:You do understand that that's not what's being proposed at all, right? You also understand that the kind of increase proposed brings us back to the roughly 30 year trend, right?
The "historically it has been worse" argument is extremely weak when you are trying to justify doubling someones taxes
quote:And I could say that if you've enjoyed our superpower status in the world from 1945 until now, you should be thankful that we made the change in 1913.
I could just say historically, income taxes used to be 0%
What an absurd comment.
quote:Huh?? If I'm receiving checks someone please tell me.
so you should be happy you get anything.
quote:The issue is your anger, and why you shouldn't be so angry. The issue is that we should all take a breath, consider if this is as bad as we think it is, and come out saying "no, it's really not that bad."
Then what is the issue?
Instead of the "fricking liberals" kind of "non thinking" that is so prevalent.
This post was edited on 4/23/21 at 12:10 pm
Posted on 4/23/21 at 12:04 pm to bayoubengals88
I think you are projecting a little.. Agree to disagree I guess. I don’t agree that “taxes used to be higher” is justification for raising taxes. That’s the only argument you’ve made so far.
Posted on 4/23/21 at 12:09 pm to RebelExpress38
quote:Can you spell that out?
I think you are projecting a little..
quote:I'm actually not attempting to make any argument as much as I am asking folks to think about why they hate this headline.
I don’t agree that “taxes used to be higher” is justification for raising taxes. That’s the only argument you’ve made so far.
Here's an example. You read this headline for the first time...
“Biden is planning a capital gains tax hike to as high as 43.4% for wealthy Americans”
My first reaction to this was actually negative. I really can't stand Joe Biden currently, I didn't vote for him, and I've labeled myself a fiscal conservative for a long time.
But after considering the headline for a bit longer, looking into the historical evidence, and weighing my own beliefs about faith and money, my response to the headline is now this: "Ok, that's actually not that big of a deal."
Not only am I not angry about something that would have used to anger me (this is a positive), I'm considering that helping people in need aligns with my beliefs more so than the "It's MY money!" attitude.
That being said, I would prefer if the money is spent wisely, but I have my doubts. This is the truly sad reality.
This post was edited on 4/23/21 at 12:13 pm
Posted on 4/23/21 at 12:25 pm to Leonard
quote:
I will again speculate that if this hike goes through unaltered (it absolutely won't) the vast majority of America would remain unaffected
Throwing a cold wet blanket on the investment climate will affect everyone.
Posted on 4/23/21 at 12:30 pm to Auburn1968
So the normals don't get infrastructure because people making 1MM+ a year don't want a tax hike?
Rich people get to drive on the roads too...
Rich people get to drive on the roads too...
Posted on 4/23/21 at 12:37 pm to Leonard
quote:
So the normals don't get infrastructure because people making 1MM+ a year don't want a tax hike?
We don't have to increase taxes to invest in infrastructure though. Could just as easily say the normals don't get infrastructure because the lazy asses don't pay taxes and leach off of the government funds that could be used for infrastructure
Posted on 4/23/21 at 12:45 pm to jchamil
quote:
We don't have to increase taxes to invest in infrastructure though
Tell that to the GOP who suddenly remembered they care about the deficit.
quote:
Could just as easily say the normals don't get infrastructure because the lazy asses don't pay taxes and leach off of the government funds that could be used for infrastructure
Entitlement reform is never going to happen, methinks. Might as well invest in the short-term and see it pay dividends (educated populace) down the road
Posted on 4/23/21 at 12:46 pm to RebelExpress38
A compilation of reactions to this headline that Biden plans to raise capital gains taxes as high as 43% for Americans who make more than one million annually:
"frick this government"
"frick every single person who voted for these people. How in the hell did anyone actually think this would be a good thing?"
"Liberals do not work."
"What a reckless plan."
"The truly wise wealthy will find a way to avoid it."
"Jesus Christ we are about to go full on socialism. The explanation for the tax increase should be enough to make any hard working red blooded American vomit."
"Anybody who voted for this should drink bleach. Dumbest people on earth"
"F. That."
"frick BIDEN and every pos that voted for him."
"frick this government"
"frick every single person who voted for these people. How in the hell did anyone actually think this would be a good thing?"
"Liberals do not work."
"What a reckless plan."
"The truly wise wealthy will find a way to avoid it."
"Jesus Christ we are about to go full on socialism. The explanation for the tax increase should be enough to make any hard working red blooded American vomit."
"Anybody who voted for this should drink bleach. Dumbest people on earth"
"F. That."
"frick BIDEN and every pos that voted for him."
Posted on 4/23/21 at 12:47 pm to jchamil
quote:This could have merit if you spent the time to research and then provide evidence.
Could just as easily say the normals don't get infrastructure because the lazy asses don't pay taxes and leach off of the government funds that could be used for infrastructure
But, since you did none of that, why did you say anything at all?
In other words, yes, easy to say harder to prove.
This post was edited on 4/23/21 at 1:00 pm
Posted on 4/23/21 at 12:51 pm to 21JumpStreet
quote:and you've got people in this thread that haven't paused long enough to consider the difference between millionaire and a million in annual income.
Hopefully that changes by the time I'm a millionaire
By the way, making one million or more in annual income puts you at the top tenth of one percent in the entire world.
So why are you all crying about this proposal? Hell, I, for one, like nice infrastructure.
This post was edited on 4/23/21 at 12:52 pm
Posted on 4/23/21 at 12:59 pm to bayoubengals88
quote:
This could have merit if you spent the time to research and then provide evidence.
You know it's true whether I did the research or not. You think it's untrue that if we cut spending in one area we would have extra funds to spend in another area? You must be really smart
quote:
But, since you did none of that, why did you say anything at all?
Because it's a discussion on a message board that I made a comment on while eating my lunch at work
Posted on 4/23/21 at 1:10 pm to bayoubengals88
More than 50% of the country is invested in the stock market through 401ks or pensions. When you wreck the large institutional investors’ incentives, do you think that will happen in a vacuum? If the hedge funds and multimillionaires/billionaires all sell their stocks, that will wreck the market, the same market that all our 401ks are in.
The big guys will be fine because they can just absorb the hit and move their assets to real estate or overseas. But when the market tanks, the little guy will feel it and we won’t get to move our money around. It is very easy to see this, but advocates for taxes like this ignore how the markets work, they just want to play on class warfare.
The big guys will be fine because they can just absorb the hit and move their assets to real estate or overseas. But when the market tanks, the little guy will feel it and we won’t get to move our money around. It is very easy to see this, but advocates for taxes like this ignore how the markets work, they just want to play on class warfare.
Posted on 4/23/21 at 1:45 pm to bayoubengals88
You're right liberals do not work.
Posted on 4/23/21 at 1:55 pm to RebelExpress38
quote:This sounds like a fair point. I admittedly do not know enough about the bill to provide a counter argument, and perhaps I would agree with you more than I disagree.
More than 50% of the country is invested in the stock market through 401ks or pensions. When you wreck the large institutional investors’ incentives, do you think that will happen in a vacuum? If the hedge funds and multimillionaires/billionaires all sell their stocks, that will wreck the market, the same market that all our 401ks are in.
Posted on 4/23/21 at 3:17 pm to RebelExpress38
quote:
More than 50% of the country is invested in the stock market through 401ks or pensions. When you wreck the large institutional investors’ incentives, do you think that will happen in a vacuum? If the hedge funds and multimillionaires/billionaires all sell their stocks, that will wreck the market, the same market that all our 401ks are in.
I generally agree with this, but how long does the average Joe live with their 401k being held hostage by the ultra-wealthy? At some point, we'll need to update the definition of infrastructure for this century; I think if we are most powerful country in the world we should be able to provide stuff like internet, clean water, and transportation to citizens (and I think everyone would benefit!)
To a larger point, that's why trying to make this into a black & white issue sucks. I think there are valid points on each side, but we all know compromise will never happen in this political climate. It just devolves into (a) we're knocking on the door of socialism, or (b) you're racist/hate poor people.
It's obviously incredibly nuanced but a culture of instant gratification has wrecked any sort of long-term planning in this country.
Posted on 4/23/21 at 4:25 pm to Leonard
This entire “selling of stocks for taxes” is a bunch of nonsense. So we sell your AAPL and realize $1MM in gains. Now what? We buy stocks with it.
The ONLY argument for the market reacting negatively is the idea that less favorable long term gains makes the decision to invest new money less attractive, but when you look around the room, there aren’t many other options that wouldn’t incur LTCG too.
It’s malarkey. Corporate taxes should matter to the market, not long term taxes.
The ONLY argument for the market reacting negatively is the idea that less favorable long term gains makes the decision to invest new money less attractive, but when you look around the room, there aren’t many other options that wouldn’t incur LTCG too.
It’s malarkey. Corporate taxes should matter to the market, not long term taxes.
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