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re: Where does Paul Dietzel rank amongst LSU football coaches?
Posted on 6/24/12 at 7:36 pm to Doc Fenton
Posted on 6/24/12 at 7:36 pm to Doc Fenton
quote:
Dietzel finished in the top 4 of the final AP poll for 3 out of his 4 last years, whereas McClendon never finished better than #7.
Mac was Dietzel's DC for his entire tenure at LSU.
Mac's defenses had 8 shutouts in '58 and '59, alone. In those same 2 seasons, including bowl games, opponents scored over 7 points in only 3 games.
In the "terrible" 5-4-1 1960 season, where Dietzel's vaunted offense was shut out in 2 games (the defense scored the only points against Georgia Tech) - Mac's defense allowed more than 7 points exactly once - against Florida. Over those 3 seasons, the Bandits were giving up an average of about 4 3/4 points per game.
Dietzel's last season as HC, Mac's defense "fell apart" and the team allowed 57 points - about 5.2 points per game. From 1958 through 1961, Dietzel's last 4 years at LSU, Mac's defense gave up a total of 210 points - 52.5 points per season.
Everything Mac did as the head coach of LSU was without Dietzel. I know about as much about defense as Dietzel.
1
Posted on 6/25/12 at 9:56 am to gwilging
Miles
Dietzel
Saban
Mac
Dietzel
Saban
Mac
Posted on 6/25/12 at 10:00 am to Sev09
quote:
y did Paul Dietzel leave again?
His dream job was to coach at Army.
He left LSU to go there.
Posted on 6/25/12 at 10:00 am to jhhingle
frankly the majority of things associated with LSU football come from Coach Dietzel
LSU had some success before him but nothing like what he produced.
Im not into a list of numbers but one could argue that Dietzel is the grandfather of modern LSU football
LSU had some success before him but nothing like what he produced.
Im not into a list of numbers but one could argue that Dietzel is the grandfather of modern LSU football
Posted on 6/25/12 at 10:11 am to nitwit
quote:
Paul Dietzel was nothing special as a coach and was a poor AD.
Like some of you, I was young with Dietzel was coach but remember him. Nothing special. Mac did a good job, but had trouble adapting in the 1970's.
Back to Dietzel as AD, remember the "Purple Rabbit Fur Coats"? They got to where they couldn't GIVE those bastards away.
Posted on 6/25/12 at 10:13 am to ElderTiger
quote:
why did Dietzel resigned/get fired as AD?
He was fired as AD by the BOS. Incompetence and financial mismanagement were a couple of primary issues.
Posted on 6/25/12 at 10:16 am to tigger1
quote:
For those wanting Mac as AD, I don't think he would have been up for the job.
Disagree. He was good enough to become executive director for the then Tangerine Bowl (later Citrus) and took it to new heights. He could have handled LSU.
Posted on 6/25/12 at 10:44 am to jhhingle
1. Saban
2. Miles
3. Mclendon
4. Arnsbarger
5. Dietzel
2. Miles
3. Mclendon
4. Arnsbarger
5. Dietzel
Posted on 6/25/12 at 10:49 am to ShaneTheMaster
Shane's list has it right, but only if you start in the time period begining in '57.
However, one question: was Dietzel better than Dinardo?
Not so sure...
However, one question: was Dietzel better than Dinardo?
Not so sure...
Posted on 6/25/12 at 1:35 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
Everything Mac did as the head coach of LSU was without Dietzel. I know about as much about defense as Dietzel.
I was not around for Dietzel and for Mac I remember his seasons from 73-79 very well and I think all will agree those werent his best years. I do think Mac was a great coach and a great man and should be beloved by all Tigers.
I think what may be left out and it was mentioned in the movie Ole War Skule was that many of the players felt Mac was such an incredible teacher of the game and the duties of the head coach limited the amount of time he could spend teaching players versus the amount of time he was able to spend as DC.
From my understanding Dietzel was very good administratively and was pretty good running an offense considering the era and typical offensive production of that era.
So I think LSU possibly would have been better off if Dietzel had stayed and ran the program and Mac had been the longtime DC. Whether Mac would have stayed a DC who knows but I think the Dietzel/Mac combo would have kept LSU nose to nose with Bama from the 60's until at least the early 70's.
Just my thoughts but I do believe Dietzel and Mac if remained together at LSU would have produced some more legendary teams and probably another NC or two.
Posted on 6/25/12 at 1:46 pm to stapuffmarshy
I would definitely Kige this staypuffmarshy as Dietzel being the grandfather of modern LSU football. 
Posted on 6/25/12 at 1:49 pm to DaSaltyTiger
Could be wrong, but also seem to remember Chancellor Wharton at that time quoting on a newscast that it didnt help Dietzel with his staunch defense of Coach Jerry Stovall who had just went 3-7-1 that year.
Posted on 6/25/12 at 2:35 pm to windhammontanatigers
No, that didn't help either. Dietzel said in an interview many years ago that he had considered taking the team himself after the plane crash. However, he felt that he was probably too old to hand the stress. With recruiting about to end, he felt that Jerry Stovall was his best option. Stovall was already working with LSU in another capacity when Dietzel tapped him. With the roller coaster seasons he produced he probably was in over his head. The first year Brodhead was AD Stovall took the team to the Orange Bowl, only the crash and have another losing season the next.
Posted on 6/25/12 at 3:03 pm to DaSaltyTiger
quote:I totally agree with your "disagree" point. I was thinking the exact same thing. Mac would have been the logical AD, and may have been very ready to step away from coaching to take that post. But nooooooo!
Disagree. He was good enough to become executive director for the then Tangerine Bowl (later Citrus) and took it to new heights. He could have handled LSU.
Posted on 6/25/12 at 4:26 pm to JawjaTigah
When Dietzel left LSU for Army he did not recommend McClendon for the LSU job ... thus, there were hard feelings between Mac and Dietzel for many years. When Dietzel returned as AD in 1978-79, Mac's days were numbered.
As a coach, Dietzel is overrated. At Army and South Carolina, his record was mediocre. When he left Army after the 1965 season, the new coach (Cahill) became national coach of the year the very next season (1966).
1. Saban
2. Miles
3. McClendon
4. Dietzel
5. Arnsbarger
As a coach, Dietzel is overrated. At Army and South Carolina, his record was mediocre. When he left Army after the 1965 season, the new coach (Cahill) became national coach of the year the very next season (1966).
1. Saban
2. Miles
3. McClendon
4. Dietzel
5. Arnsbarger
Posted on 6/26/12 at 9:26 am to JawjaTigah
BOS during that time was the worst three ring circus ever. Things really did not settle down on hiring until Mark Emmert and Skip Bertman stepped in. Prior to that, it was almost as if the BOS wanted to hire and run the football program - folks who in most cases never played a down of organized ball themselves. My dog forgot more about football than they ever new. What really got appalling at the time was some of the "cutsey" antics of the female BOS members. They treated it like a novelty.
Posted on 6/26/12 at 9:55 am to Rudy40
quote:
I was not around for Dietzel and for Mac I remember his seasons from 73-79 very well and I think all will agree those werent his best years.
You mean '74 to '79, certainly ('73 was a great team - won 9 straight games before the Tide triggered a 3 game slide at the end - that is considered the "high water mark" of the Mac era).
The slowness of LSU to integrate was not Mac's choice. Yes those last 6 seasons had us right at .500 ball in conference, but there were still great moments and great teams - the '77 team was one of Mac's best offensive squads, just coming up a little short in the opener, on the road @ Indiana or that would have been a 9-win season and would have flirted with a final Top 10/12 ranking (as it is we finished 15th, despite losing by 3 touchdowns to Kentucky and Bama). And the legendary moral victory against 1979 USC - still one of the most talented football teams LSU ever faced.
Cholly Mac never did anything to deserve the disrespect heaped upon him by so-called LSU fans. Anyone who favors the way Dietzel acted (however understandable, from a personal perspective) towards LSU over Mac doesn't understand loyalty or honor. Anyone who thinks it was perfectly fine the way Dietzel was brought back in to "help Mac pack" is in the same category.
Cholly Mac was a consistent, proven winner. Only 1 season out of 18 below .500, and only 4 out of 18 under .500 in the SEC. 1970 had him 5-0 in conference, and only 5 points from an undefeated regular season. The 1969 team - forever denied its place in history by the powers that be - was only 3 points from perfection, pitched 3 shutouts and denied the opponent 7 points in half (5) of the games.
Mac was the DC for the '58 through '61 team and the head coach for the '69 through '73 team, the 2 greatest periods of LSU football prior to our current decade+ run. (ETA - and it should be added that he took over as HC in '62 and arguably extended that period an additional year - 1962 was only 9 points from a perfect season, and just 1 point from what would have been LSU's 4th 10-win season to date).
This post was edited on 6/26/12 at 10:00 am
Posted on 6/26/12 at 11:26 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
Cholly Mac never did anything to deserve the disrespect heaped upon him by so-called LSU fans. Anyone who favors the way Dietzel acted (however understandable, from a personal perspective) towards LSU over Mac doesn't understand loyalty or honor.
Mac was/still is one of the most loved/respected coaches in LSU history. imo
He suffered the fate of many HCs who couldn't maintain the really outstanding program they helped develop.
He was at LSU 25 yrs and he was very good for LSU and LSU was very good for him.
You always gonna have the clueless jerks who have to dog someone, but the vast majority of LSU fans really liked Mac. imo
Now Paul...that was a different story.
Posted on 6/26/12 at 11:52 am to Doc Fenton
quote:
The rumor is he was sleeping with too many secretaries or something like that. I don't know how accurate that is.
Probably Edwin Edwards 1st wife at that time.
Posted on 6/26/12 at 5:55 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
that is considered the "high water mark"
What about 1969?
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