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re: What will it take for Orgeron to overtake Les Miles as the GOAT LSU football coach?
Posted on 8/14/17 at 8:15 pm to Paul B Ammer
Posted on 8/14/17 at 8:15 pm to Paul B Ammer
I don't know what you're talking about because I never ignore our national championship win under Nick. It was a great season, a great win, and great coaching.
But Nick didn't walk on water at LSU as he has to a large degree at Bama.
But Nick didn't walk on water at LSU as he has to a large degree at Bama.
1
Posted on 8/14/17 at 8:19 pm to Lonnie4LSU
quote:
But Nick didn't walk on water at LSU as he has to a large degree at Bama.
I'm not sure, but I think you may have hurt his feelings by not worshipping nicky like most of the gumps do.
By the way, I agree with you 100%.
Posted on 8/14/17 at 8:22 pm to earl keese
quote:
nicky
I'm sure you referred to him like that on January 1, 2004.
Posted on 8/14/17 at 8:35 pm to Paul B Ammer
quote:
I'm sure you referred to him like that on January1, 2004
I was never a fan of Mr. Saban. I called him Mr. Saban so you wouldn't get offended. I am very appreciative of what Mr. Saban accomplished while the head coach of LSU, but he really only had one great season while at LSU. He had a very good season in 2001, but the 2000, 2002 and 2004 were average to above average. But not spectacular.
As for the date of January 1, 2004, not sure why that would be important to an LSU fan. The National Championship game (Sugar Bowl) wasn't played until January 4th.
Posted on 8/14/17 at 8:41 pm to earl keese
Sabans best coaching job was here at LSU. He not only had to come in and change the culture but rebuild a program, and resurrect outdated facilities which he did masterfully, And while doin all this Winning, 2 SEC titles and a National Championship in only 5 years!!!! If Miles would have been hired in 2000 he would have been fired in 3 years. Miles with his recruits that he coached has only 1 Sec title to show for it, an one of the biggest EMBARRASSMENTS College football has ever seen with a talent filled roster couldn't cross the 50 yard line with the whole Country watching the NC. // When Saban got to Bama all he had to do was recruit and Coach. If he would have stayed here he would have won titles in 06 & 07 (without 2 loses) & he wouldn't have had to back in, this would have been our Dynasty not Bama's./ Imagine what Charlie Mac, B Arnsparger, hell even Archer would have done if they would have followed Saban with the biggest budget for Asst Coaches and recruiters LSU had ever seen. Les Miles was Curly hallman with facilities and a bigtime budget to hire the Coaches to do the coaching for you.
This post was edited on 8/14/17 at 8:51 pm
Posted on 8/14/17 at 8:49 pm to theunknownknight
Les Miles was the best ever at LSU as concerns being an administrator of a solid academic football team that [more often than not] didn't get into nearly the trouble with the law as did the players who played for his predecessors at least the twenty years before him. Under Les, the GPA and number of graduates on the football team rose significantly. He held high standards for team rules to be followed and adhered to and was willing to sacrifice wins for those unwilling to compromise on the same. He created a true sense of family among the team and very likely was a tremendous mentor to many of his players while providing almost a "father figure" in many of their lives.
All of that being said, his pride kept him from developing into a great coach or the greatest of all time. Aside from Saban, Bill Arnsparger [twice named SEC Coach of the Year in the three seasons at LSU] was a better pure coach than was Les.
All of that being said, his pride kept him from developing into a great coach or the greatest of all time. Aside from Saban, Bill Arnsparger [twice named SEC Coach of the Year in the three seasons at LSU] was a better pure coach than was Les.
Posted on 8/14/17 at 8:53 pm to earl keese
quote:
he really only had one great season...
I guess you really don't realize how rare that 'one great season' is or how many teams would die to have one.
Or you have let your feelings overwhelm your judgement about the man who resurrected your program and made it what it is today.
Posted on 8/14/17 at 9:15 pm to vjm41
quote:You're mistaken, and that vision took place in order for Saban to even arrive at LSU.
Sabans best coaching job was here at LSU. He not only had to come in and change the culture but rebuild a program, and resurrect outdated facilities which he did masterfully,
I'm gonna drop a name on this, Emmert.
Posted on 8/14/17 at 9:17 pm to Mayhawman
quote:
You're mistaken, and that vision took place in order for Saban to even arrive at LSU. I'm gonna drop a name on this, Emmert.
This! There's the real reason for LSU's success.
Posted on 8/14/17 at 11:14 pm to Paul B Ammer
quote:
I guess you really don't realize how rare that "one great season" is or how many teams would die to have one.
Oh believe me, I realize how rare that "one great season" is. After being a fan of LSU athletics since the mid sixties, I know far too well how rare a championship season is.
That's why I said that "I am very appreciative of what Mr. Saban accomplished while the head coach of LSU." That championship is something that can never be taken from the LSU football program.
I'm not one of the posters on the rant that think championship seasons or even 12 or 11 win seasons grow on trees. And believe me, there are dozens upon dozens of people on the rant that believe just that.
But again, Saban only had one great season at LSU.
Perhaps your love for the man drives you to feel that everyone should kiss the ground he walks on. That's not the case. He did some good things while he was here, some things he did were great.
But 5 seasons with records of 8-4, 10-3, 8-5, 13-1 and 9-3 makes me wonder how good of a coach he really was while he was in Baton Rouge. After all, most everyone is saying he's the best ever. That record doesn't show it though.
What he's done at Bama, that's a different story.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 8:40 am to earl keese
quote:
But 5 seasons with records of 8-4, 10-3, 8-5, 13-1 and 9-3 makes me wonder how good of a coach he really was while he was in Baton Rouge. After all, most everyone is saying he's the best ever. That record doesn't show it though
I hate to sound like a broken record, but if you wonder how good he was in BR it's either because you refuse to put it context or you just don't like Saban. If you followed the program since the 60's you know where the program was before he got here. Dietzels last season was 1961 he went 10-1. We only had 2 10 win seasons (87, 96) between 61 and 01. Also you are completely ignoring the incredible talent that Saban brought in. There is no reason to think he would have done worse than Miles from 05-07, now he left so we'll never know, but this idea that we don't know how great he was here is just willful ignorance.
ETA: I'm ok with saying Miles is the best at LSU he does have the highest winning percentage and coached 11+ year had a great deal of success but it's just nonsense to say Saban was average or slightly above average or had only 1 great season.
This post was edited on 8/15/17 at 11:54 am
Posted on 8/15/17 at 8:47 am to Mayhawman
quote:
You're mistaken, and that vision took place in order for Saban to even arrive at LSU. I'm gonna drop a name on this, Emmert.
In importance Emmert is 1 but Saban is 1a). You need the vision and administrative support but you also need the coach. You don't have Saban with out Emmert but you don't have the program success on the field with just an "average" coach.
This post was edited on 8/15/17 at 8:56 am
Posted on 8/15/17 at 8:48 am to theunknownknight
Getting at least 11 wins this season with 1 being over Bama.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 9:48 am to SaintLSU
quote:
He is Larry Coker
Lol coker was retained because the players wanted him. Les was hired over quite a few coaches because the best coach in LSU history, Bertman, saw something in him.
Once recruiting starts to dip, it already has, and LSU starts getting to the 6 win seasons. Y'all will realize that no, not anyone can win at LSU.
If we really want to argue building programs. Oklahoma State was in way worse shape when Miles took over than LSU was when Saban took over. That's a fact. Dinardo had the roster littered with NFL talent. Les took a team that couldnt buy 2 wins to bowl games and beating their more talented rival.
This post was edited on 8/15/17 at 9:52 am
Posted on 8/15/17 at 9:49 am to Mayhawman
"Emmert"
I've always felt that Mark was the major catalyst to a large amount of LSU success both on the football field and academically. I don't think Nick comes to LSU if Mark's not here and it wasn't surprising to me that they both left LSU at approximately the same time.
Mark gave Nick just about anything he wanted.
For those who want to tell us that it's not all bout winning or records, let's not forget the academic fraud going on within the football program much of Nick's time at LSU.
I've always felt that Mark was the major catalyst to a large amount of LSU success both on the football field and academically. I don't think Nick comes to LSU if Mark's not here and it wasn't surprising to me that they both left LSU at approximately the same time.
Mark gave Nick just about anything he wanted.
For those who want to tell us that it's not all bout winning or records, let's not forget the academic fraud going on within the football program much of Nick's time at LSU.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 10:57 am to H-Town Tiger
quote:I understand this, but my premise is Saban came for the cash Emmert laid on the table and wasn't dictating terms to the AD as many make it sound.
You don't have Saban with out Emmert but you don't have the program success on the field with just an "average" coach.
I'm pretty convinced at that time in his career Saban would've come for the $1.2m alone with no stipulations of improved facilities, etc.
The plan was in place and the football coach did his job and did it well, not singlehandedly improved the facilities, the athletic dept culture, nor turned water into wine as many sabanistas propose.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 11:10 am to dgnx6
quote:
He is Larry Coker
quote:
Lol coker was retained because the players wanted him. Les was hired over quite a few coaches because the best coach in LSU history, Bertman, saw something in him.
Yeah, Coker is a horrible comparision. Miami was worse every year he was there.
You can say what you want about Miles but at least he could recruit at an elite level. Coker could not.
That's funny people say LSU recruited itself under Miles. If there was such a thing as a school recruiting for itself, Miami should've been doing that when they were on their ridiculous run. Numerous other schools in recruiting hotbeds have had down periods because yeah, actually you do need a coach that can recruit. I would've figured people would know that by how everyone was coming into Louisiana and taking recruits in the early to mid 90s.
This post was edited on 8/15/17 at 11:16 am
Posted on 8/15/17 at 11:21 am to dgnx6
quote:
Dinardo had the roster littered with NFL talent
Did he? From 2000-2003 LSU had 14 players drafted and zero first rounders. By contrast 96-99 we had 11 drafted and 4 first rounders including Faneca probably our best pro since Jim Taylor).
The 2001 draft (after Saban's first year aka Dinardo's players) only 3 players were drafted, 2 6th and a 7th rounder, the highest was #164) by contrast the 96 draft after DiNardo's first season (aka Hallman's players) had 3 picks 1 first and 2?2nd the lowest was 53
Just FYI 2006 draft after Miles first year aka Saban's players 7 drafted. 1 first. 07 5 drafted 4 first 08 7 drafted 1 first. Pretty clear who left the most talent.
This post was edited on 8/15/17 at 11:22 am
Posted on 8/15/17 at 11:30 am to Mayhawman
quote:
understand this, but my premise is Saban came for the cash Emmert laid on the table and wasn't dictating terms to the AD as many make it sound
I'm pretty sure Emmert and Dean said Saban did say/demand needed improvements. No one is saying he single handedily rebuilt the program or demanded things no one thought of DiNardo wanted a football ops building by didn't have the juice to get it done. Certainly we were improving facilities planned. It was long overdue and most if not allgets done with out Saban and it's likely that leads to a much better program than the 90's but do we have 1 let alone 2 NCs? Given the other names thrown around back in 99 I doubt it.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 11:47 am to theunknownknight
Not possible if you are referring to subjective statistics. From an objective standpoint, TOMMORROW?
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