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re: The legacy of Lee and Les and how they're intertwined
Posted on 1/18/12 at 7:40 pm to RobbBobb
Posted on 1/18/12 at 7:40 pm to RobbBobb
quote:
And I get an awful lot of responses from people who think my opinions have no merit.
:notsureifserious:
I don't know how you could think I wasn't serious, considering you just joined the crew of people responding to me though I have "no merit."
If my opinion was so worthless to you, couldn't you just ignore it?
1
Posted on 1/18/12 at 7:42 pm to DP40
Great. Another thread by The Guilbeau Gang.
Posted on 1/18/12 at 7:44 pm to OBUDan
quote:
I've just never been big on QBs playing bad all day then suddenly coming on for that last heroic drive (which is why I don't think a guy like Big Ben is elite).
How can you be bad all day if you don't start?
Posted on 1/18/12 at 7:44 pm to OBUDan
quote:
If my opinion was so worthless to you, couldn't you just ignore it?
No, because you re up in every Lee thread denigrating the kid. Its hard to ignore
Lee saved Miles' arse. He would not be coaching at LSU without Lee. But he acted like the kid was a cancer to the team
Posted on 1/18/12 at 7:46 pm to RobbBobb
quote:
No, because you re up in every Lee thread denigrating the kid.
NOt really. For one, I don't think you know the meaning of denigrating.
Two, that's not true. There's at least two Lee threads on the first few pages that include positive comments from me.
quote:
Lee saved Miles' arse
quote:
He would not be coaching at LSU without Lee. But he acted like the kid was a cancer to the team
Oh, now I understand what I'm up against.
What's really sad about a lot of this, is that there's a lot more Jarrett Lee fans on this board than LSU fans.
Posted on 1/18/12 at 7:50 pm to Powerman
quote:
How can you be bad all day if you don't start?
Well, if you are going to cut Lee slack for "JJ cutting into his time" then the inverse should be considered as well.
I posted the play counts/yardage totals/points for the drives when Lee was on the field in that Tennessee game.
6 plays for 20, 0 points
5 plays for 21, 0 points
6 plays for 19, 0 points
4 plays for 62, 0 points (INT in RZ on 1st down)
Those were the stats for every drive Lee played exclusively, before the final drive.
Would you celebrate that performance if you stepped back and it had no tie to LSU?
This post was edited on 1/18/12 at 7:51 pm
Posted on 1/18/12 at 7:51 pm to Powerman
quote:
I've just never been big on QBs playing bad all day then suddenly coming on for that last heroic drive (which is why I don't think a guy like Big Ben is elite).
Couldn't agree more. But Lee was only utilized as a regular starter in '08 and this year. The results demonstrate he was not bad all day, then having a heroic drive to win games.
He was in for heroic drives because JJ was not that guy last year.
Posted on 1/18/12 at 7:54 pm to OBUDan
quote:
Oh, now I understand what I'm up against.
Look after the Tenn game, members of the BOS were sick of the complaints. I know I had dinner with a couple of them that week. Had Lee not been here, this is the scenario we would be looking at
2008:
8 losses - the 5 we had + Aub, So. Car, and the hot seat loss to Troy
2009:
the 4 losses we had, including the Ole Miss debacle
2010:
The 2 losses we had, the Tenn debacle, losses to UF and Bama
That's 15 losses in 3 yrs. Miles doesnt survive that. Not with a Troy, Ole Miss, and Tenn annually on his record
Posted on 1/18/12 at 7:57 pm to DP40
quote:
The results demonstrate he was not bad all day, then having a heroic drive to win games.
The first 8 games this year, yes, I agree.
He did it in 08 vs. Auburn. Other games we were getting blown out both due to his poor play and our god awful defense from that year.
quote:
He was in for heroic drives because JJ was not that guy last year.
Well there's two games people use in that argument.
One of them is Tennessee and I think the stats pretty clearly show that's not entirely true. Or at least isn't the full picture.
Vs. Florida, he was very instrumental to leading the comeback, I agree. But other than the pick, JJ wasn't abjectly terrible in that game.
Posted on 1/18/12 at 7:57 pm to OBUDan
quote:
Would you celebrate that performance if you stepped back and it had no tie to LSU?
If you have to cherry pick to frame an argument, you have no argument.
The LSU offense was dead in the water in that game. Lee played admirably in the 4th to give it some life and made crucial plays to get us in scoring position for the winning score.
You can pretend all day that we win that game without Lee but we all know that's a loss if he doesn't come in.
Posted on 1/18/12 at 7:59 pm to OBUDan
quote:
Other games we were getting blown out both due to his poor play and our god awful defense from that year.
Of course you have to recognize that there is a symbiotic relationship there
If our defense isn't getting gashed then he is probably not as aggressive with his play
Posted on 1/18/12 at 8:01 pm to RobbBobb
I'm sorry, but I simply cannot respect the opinion of someone who thinks Jarrett Lee is the only reason Les Miles is still the coach at LSU.
It's a laughable opinion, at best.
It's a laughable opinion, at best.
Posted on 1/18/12 at 8:01 pm to Powerman
quote:
If our defense isn't getting gashed then he is probably not as aggressive with his play
He threw a pick six on the 1st play against UGA and a pick on the 3rd play against Bama.
Posted on 1/18/12 at 8:01 pm to OBUDan
quote:
I've just never been big on QBs playing bad all day then suddenly coming on for that last heroic drive
I'm with Powerman on this one. I don't see how you can say that. Even by you narrative he only made one bad play vs several great plays in the game.
Posted on 1/18/12 at 8:04 pm to Powerman
quote:
If you have to cherry pick to frame an argument, you have no argument.
Those numbers I posted, I've seen JJ roasted for countless times.
quote:
The LSU offense was dead in the water in that game
Yes. Lee included. In fact, he did mostly nothing, until late in the game where he made one big throw but turned around and blew a golden chance the next play on a horrific throw.
The final drive though, he should be celebrated for a couple of the big time throws he made in tough positions.
quote:
You can pretend all day that we win that game without Lee but we all know that's a loss if he doesn't come in.
No, we don't know that.
Just like we don't know "it's a loss this year if Lee finishes the game against Alabama."
Lee played a part in ensuring the victory vs. Tennessee in '10. So did JJ. So did Ridley. And Randle.
Posted on 1/18/12 at 8:06 pm to saintsfan22
quote:
If our defense isn't getting gashed then he is probably not as aggressive with his play
He threw a pick six on the 1st play against UGA and a pick on the 3rd play against Bama.
Our defense was certainly terrible that year. No one would say otherwise.
I see a lot of people say, "Well Lee was put into bad position having to play catch up."
Well, he was also playing a part in having to play catch up in those games. And it should be considered on the other side as well, "The D was put in a bad position having to get back on the field so often after turnovers."
Posted on 1/18/12 at 8:06 pm to OBUDan
quote:
I'm sorry, but I simply cannot respect the opinion of someone who thinks Jarrett Lee is the only reason Les Miles is still the coach at LSU.
It's a laughable opinion, at best.
Take away his contributions and you have a potential losing season in 2008, 2 more losses in 2010 and who knows what this season would have been.
You could make an argument that he wouldn't be as untouchable without Lee.
Possibly on the hot seat. Who knows
Posted on 1/18/12 at 8:08 pm to OBUDan
quote:
And it should be considered on the other side as well, "The D was put in a bad position having to get back on the field so often after turnovers."
This is a dumb arse statement for more than obvious reasons
Posted on 1/18/12 at 8:08 pm to mmcgrath
quote:
I don't see how you can say that.
There's more to his dislike of Lee than just football. Dan came out full bore against Lee from the Oregon game on. But Lee just kept on winning and getting better. By the end of the yr, there was no lnger a comparison. JJ had shown no improvement. Lee was All-SEC, All-Star QB, and now NFL prospect
All that brought out a flock of JJ fanboys who steadily:
1) Tell everyone to move on
2) Downplay Lee contributions
3) Bolster Miles coaching
They made their bed with JJ, and now look silly having done it. Its all about e-cred at this point.
Posted on 1/18/12 at 8:24 pm to Powerman
quote:
This is a dumb arse statement for more than obvious reasons
If that's a dumb arse statement, then so is the one you made.
Vs. Auburn:
We trail 7-3 late in the 2nd quarter. Lee throws a pick 6.
vs. UF:
This is the one game that his picks literally had little to nothing to do with the outcome.
vs. USC:
Game tied 10-10. Lee throws a pick at the end of the 2nd, giving them the ball on the 8. USC scores on the next drive. The defense actually clamped down in the 2nd half of this game giving up drives:
9 plays for 34 yards
3 plays for 4 yards
3 plays for 1 yard
4 plays for 6 yards
5 plays for -2 yards
2 plays for -5 yards
We gave up 38 fricking yards after trailing at halftime. Defense is the reason we won this game. Not Jarrett Lee. Also, Hatch threw one of the TDs.
vs. UGA
We lost by two TDs. Lee threw two picks sixes... including the very first play of the game.
vs. Alabama
Lee's first pick lead to Alabama's first score, and gave them the ball at the 15.
Lee's second pick was returned for a TD, which tied the game.
Finally, his pick in OT lost us the game.
Honestly, you can look at the play-by-play for the games yourself, but I think it's pretty clear that the idea that the "defense put Lee behind the 8 ball" is pretty easily a proven a myth. A lot of the times, his own mistakes were the cause.
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