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Started By
Message
re: The Final Series: A Series of Pictures
Posted on 10/5/10 at 3:38 pm to cene
Posted on 10/5/10 at 3:38 pm to cene
quote:That doesn't even make sense.
Pot Meet Kettle
quote:In this very thread, I posted:
In this very thread you assume JJ would call for the snap before time expired and that T-BOB prematurely snapped the ball because he panicked.
so which is it? Is it we don't know what would have happened or would JJ have gotten t-bob to snap the ball on time?
quote:We will never know what would have happened; however, it is reasonable to assume that Jefferson would have gotten Hebert to snap the ball on time. Jefferson has been in the shotgun many times. I don't recall him not getting Hebert to snap the ball on time from the shotgun.
Yes, I am speculating as to what Jefferson would have done. I am speculating that Jefferson would have done what he is supposed to have done.
1
Posted on 10/5/10 at 3:44 pm to just me
quote:
Jefferson has been in the shotgun many times. I don't recall him not getting Hebert to snap the ball on time from the shotgun.
How many of those times was he clapping his hands and looking to his right, with less than three seconds remaining on the game clock?
Do we know how long it takes for him to be competely unaware of what the center is doing, to being in a position to "call for" and take the shotgun snap properly to execute a given play? Can that process be accomplished in the span of less than 3 seconds?
If you can't answer all of those, how is your supposition the most reasonable one, as you propose?
Posted on 10/5/10 at 3:55 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:Probably not many, if any. I'm not sure that it is relevant.
How many of those times was he clapping his hands and looking to his right, with less than three seconds remaining on the game clock?
quote:Why do you think he was completely unaware of what the center is doing?
Do we know how long it takes for him to be competely unaware of what the center is doing, to being in a position to "call for" and take the shotgun snap properly to execute a given play?
quote:I cannot imagine why not.
Can that process be accomplished in the span of less than 3 seconds?
quote:Jefferson has called for the snap from the shotgun many times. Hebert has delivered it to him many times without problem. The likelihood is that the exchange proceeds as it has usually done in the past unless one of them changes the procedure. Hebert stated that he changed the procedure.
If you can't answer all of those, how is your supposition the most reasonable one, as you propose?
Posted on 10/5/10 at 3:59 pm to just me
quote:
Do we know how long it takes for him to be competely unaware of what the center is doing, to being in a position to "call for" and take the shotgun snap properly to execute a given play?
Why do you think he was completely unaware of what the center is doing?
Because of the outcome I witnessed.
Posted on 10/5/10 at 4:04 pm to Y.A. Tittle
Hebert didnt want the game to end like the Ole Miss debacle; and clearly didnt trust JJ to call for the ball with time left (or there was a mis-communication at some point)
Granted its an assumption, but probably the most likely scenario.
Granted its an assumption, but probably the most likely scenario.
This post was edited on 10/5/10 at 4:05 pm
Posted on 10/5/10 at 4:05 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:Not expecting the snap when you haven't called for it, does not mean that you are completely unaware of the center.
Because of the outcome I witnessed.
ETA - Hebert has played well. I am not bashing Hebert. I want Hebert to play, and LSU needs Hebert to play.
He said in his interview that he made the decision to snap it because of what happened in the Ole Miss game. He didn't say that he snapped because Jefferson called for it. I am glad that he snapped it before the game clock hit 0:00. I just wished that he had waited a second or two.
Posted on 10/5/10 at 4:12 pm to just me
quote:
Not expecting the snap when you haven't called for it, does not mean that you are completely unaware of the center.
I disagree and it's where I think your whole point falls apart, given the time remain on the clock at the time the ball was snapped.
At worse, though, Jefferson gets maybe 5% of the blame. Probably less.
Which is why most of your argument is one against strawmen - making it ironic you would invoke such a term.
Posted on 10/5/10 at 4:15 pm to just me
quote:
The points are simple.
The main point being made here is that you are an idiot
quote:
(1) Jefferson was correct in not immediately clocking the ball. Immediately clocking the ball would have been the wrong call, and it would have taken a down away from his coaches.
Right. Because if you wait until there is 2 seconds left on the game clock to call for the ball, you'll have plenty of time to run 2 plays.
Idiot
quote:
(2) Jefferson did not have an opportunity to immediately clock the ball without incurring a penalty. Substitutes were being sent onto the field before he could have clocked it.
You get the team lined up and wave everyone else off the field. Then run a passing play. Throw it away if it isn't there and live to play on 4th down. There is no time for substitutions.
Posted on 10/5/10 at 4:16 pm to Lonnie4LSU
quote:
T-Bob and JJ get on the same page as to when to snap the ball and we get two tries to score and not just one.
bullshite.
The coaches squandered so much time getting all those subs in and relaying a new play to JJ that there was no time left for two plays. Instead, T-Bob had to hike it with 3 seconds left just to ensure we got a play off before regulation time expired.
The team depends on the coaches to be prepared for these situations. Their coaches failed them. Those coaches were saved only by the sheer stupidity of the other team's head coach who tried to outstupid us by sending in his own subs after we rushed ours on.
There is absolutely no excuse for why our coaches didn't give JJ two plays to run, especially when the first play they asked him to execute was a RUNNING play with no timeouts left. If you run the ball with no timeouts, your next play MUST be a quick pass. And you sure as hell don't run subs on the field. If the coaches didn't have a minimum of 2 plays for JJ to execute, they should NOT have sent him in to sub for Lee.
You don't need to be a coach to deduce this. It's called common sense. It's called making the most of the time and downs available.
Instead, the coaches bet the farm that JJ would score on 2nd & Goal. It's plainly obvious they had no good Plan B to execute on 3rd & Goal. They instead assumed JJ would score and chaos ensued when he didn't. I don't blame Williford or JJ for that. I blame the coaches for failing to think beyond 2nd & Goal.
Posted on 10/5/10 at 4:16 pm to just me
This whole breakdown is fricking retarded... from 27 to 19 seconds he did nothing to hurry up or give us any clue he knew what he was doing... That is an eternity in hurry up mode... Good try though, but you sir are wrong
Posted on 10/5/10 at 4:19 pm to Powerman
quote:
You get the team lined up and wave everyone else off the field. Then run a passing play. Throw it away if it isn't there and live to play on 4th down. There is no time for substitutions.
No shite, Sherlock. Who called for substitutions? You think JJ called for subs? JJ was waiting for the coaches to decide on a damn play and finish sending in the subs. In other words, he was waiting for the COACHES to get their shite together and finish their fricking Chinese fire drill.
Posted on 10/5/10 at 4:22 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:Come on. You would have to be blind not to see the threads and posts blaming Jefferson. I'm not making a strawman argument. They may be tinmen or men with rocks in their head, but there are plenty of posters making the argument that Jefferson is primarily or in large part to blame for the final series debacle.
Which is why most of your argument is one against strawmen - making it ironic you would invoke such a term.
Posted on 10/5/10 at 4:26 pm to just me
quote:
plenty of posters making the argument that Jefferson is primarily or in large part to blame for the final series debacle.
Where? I haven't seen that at all. And surely, if anybody's doing that, they're entirely too stupid to be worth 2% of the effort you're putting forth in this silly exercise.
Posted on 10/5/10 at 4:34 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
Where? I haven't seen that at all. And surely, if anybody's doing that, they're entirely too stupid to be worth 2% of the effort you're putting forth in this silly exercise
Jefferson and Miles are both equally at fault... Jefferson for not having the confidence or the cojones to step up and run the offense in the situation and Miles for sending him in the there with no back up plan
Posted on 10/5/10 at 4:36 pm to RileyTime
quote:
Jefferson and Miles are both equally at fault
This is pretty much the farthest I've seen anyone go.
Posted on 10/5/10 at 4:40 pm to Powerman
quote::sigh:
Right. Because if you wait until there is 2 seconds left on the game clock to call for the ball, you'll have plenty of time to run 2 plays.
Idiot
I'll try one more time to explain it you.
From :25 to :08, everyone should have been thinking two more plays. It takes several seconds to signal in the play and get everyone lined up for it, but there was plenty of time to do that . . . until subs started running onto the field.
At :21, the staff sends three substitutes onto the field. Jefferson cannot take a snap for any play while there are extra players on the field. The extra players do not leave the field until about :07.
At :08, the offense will only be able to run one effective play. Jefferson can clock it or run the play that was called. However, the offense isn't set until :03. Thus, only after :03 can Jefferson call for the ball.
quote:I don't think anyone can imagine the amount of confusion that would have occurred if Jefferson had tried to wave three players off the field, line up the offense, and call a pass play. That probably would have been a clusterfrick of epic proportions. He might have had time. I doubt it. I'm not at all sure it would have been the best course of action. It's at least reasonable to not try that and try his other option instead.
You get the team lined up and wave everyone else off the field. Then run a passing play. Throw it away if it isn't there and live to play on 4th down. There is no time for substitutions.
His other option was to run the play that was called. He tried to do that. We will never know what would have happened if Hebert had waited another second or two.
Posted on 10/5/10 at 4:41 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
This is pretty much the farthest I've seen anyone go
from 27 seconds to 17 Jefferson stood up and stared at the sidelines like WTF am I suppose to do now... I'm sorry, but if I was in the situation I am waving off my coach and taking over if that mofo doesn't know what to do... If I get yelled at I get yelled at, if I get benched, frick it I was going to be getting benched anyway... I am definitely not letting what happened out there happen... For a JR with 19 or so starts he should have the guts to make shite happen.
And don't give me the subs were running onto the field BS because that shite didn't happen till he was looking at the sidelines for a good 3-4 seconds dumbfounded.
Miles should not have sent him in there with no plan, so that is on Miles... But if Jefferson really wants to become a leader one day he needs to step up and take over situations when he is at the helm, his hand can't be held all the time.
Posted on 10/5/10 at 4:44 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:Dude?!?! It's even in this thread.
Where? I haven't seen that at all.
quote:My mom was a teacher. It's in my genes. I own a preschool. It's in my environment. And I'm a giver. I live to serve others and help them through teachable moments.
And surely, if anybody's doing that, they're entirely too stupid to be worth 2% of the effort you're putting forth in this silly exercise.
Surely, it cannot be a sin that I care for others too much.
Posted on 10/5/10 at 5:02 pm to just me
quote:
And this is on CROWTON more than anyone. HE is calling the plays and running the show down the stretch. It was his idea to sub them out. ITS ON CROWTON>
Sorry not buying. As head coach Miles abosuletely has to take control override Crowton in this situation. Miles has a headset and knows what is going on. He should have never allowed JJ to replace Lee nor allowed Crowton to try and substitute. It is utterly ridiculous for the man who is getting paid 4 mill a year to just sit there, not assert himself, and then let his assistant completely screw the pooch.
Posted on 10/5/10 at 5:18 pm to just me
quote:
If the center does not have the capacity to wait, he hikes it with 1 second
No way any coach in the country would say to wait until the game clock is on ONE second to snap the ball. You're talking about the wink of an eye here, and INTENTIONALLY playing it that close, especially after Ole Miss, would have been nothing short of ridiculous. leaves zero margin for error.
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