- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: The Fallacy of the Long Pass
Posted on 9/16/09 at 9:45 am to Indiana Tiger
Posted on 9/16/09 at 9:45 am to Indiana Tiger
quote:
The problem isn't the long ball; it's the intermediate ball.
I agree.
Dickson seems to be the forgotten man in this offense. You cannot run an offense all season by giving up the middle of the field. Yes, there is more risk of an interception. There is also the reward of forcing the defense to play the whole field. We have to start looking at reward instead of only risk.
2
Posted on 9/16/09 at 9:51 am to Baloo
quote:
The problem isn't the long ball; it's the intermediate ball.
I agree with this (or at least the proposition that using the intermediate-length pass is necessary to keep the defense honest, as well as to succeed overall--not sure it's "the" problem). However, I'm of the view that the coaching staff hasn't suddenly forgotten everything they know about winning on offense. Perhaps they see issues with the passing game (not the least of which is pass blocking) that they'd rather work out over a 4-game "preseason". It seems quite reasonable that they looked at the schedule and determined a timeline for getting the offense going that takes advantage of having four relatively weak, but not total cupcake--ULALA aside, opponents in a row. If they're still in the current mode by the end of the MSU game, then the conversation will have some legs.
This post was edited on 9/16/09 at 9:56 am
Posted on 9/16/09 at 10:01 am to Chicken
quote:
how about we just throw it DOWN field...this weekend, I watched countless NFL tight ends catch passes 15-20 yards down the middle the field. There is this large swatch of the field that we are completely avoiding.
We did that this past weekend. Example: Pass was to Richard Dickson & ended up being intercepted. The interception was nullified because Dickson got molested.
This is the point NY was making - we attempted it & the result was not the orgasmic "big" play, however it resulted in net positive yards.
Posted on 9/16/09 at 10:11 am to SEC CHAMP
LSU went down field on occassion last season, Byrd just couldn't catch it.
No matter who your QB is, you HAVE to throw it long once in a while to "stretch the field" and keep the defense guessing. Doesn't matter if its complete or not, you have to stretch the field.
No matter who your QB is, you HAVE to throw it long once in a while to "stretch the field" and keep the defense guessing. Doesn't matter if its complete or not, you have to stretch the field.
Posted on 9/16/09 at 10:27 am to Lord Nelson
quote:
We have to stretch the field vertically to run the ball.
We had 178 rushing yards Saturday night FWIW.
Posted on 9/16/09 at 10:28 am to ktowner128
quote:We did stretch the field, we just didn't complete the passes.
We have to stretch the field vertically to run the ball.
Posted on 9/16/09 at 10:52 am to SEC CHAMP
And I’m replying that throwing deep (or intermediate) has other advantages other than the big play.
I do agree with ny that its not like the coaching staff is stupid. If we see it, they see it. They are pros. And I think they’ve made a philosophical decision that the QB problems last year were a result of big play mistakes ruining the psyche of the QB. So they are being ultra careful to build JJ’s confidence.
I don’t think that’s a bad strategy entirely. There’s a lot of truth to it. But he has to throw over the middle eventually. The reward, I believe, now outweighs the risk. JJ will throw a pick. It’s okay. Good things will happen from using the middle of the field as well.
I do agree with ny that its not like the coaching staff is stupid. If we see it, they see it. They are pros. And I think they’ve made a philosophical decision that the QB problems last year were a result of big play mistakes ruining the psyche of the QB. So they are being ultra careful to build JJ’s confidence.
I don’t think that’s a bad strategy entirely. There’s a lot of truth to it. But he has to throw over the middle eventually. The reward, I believe, now outweighs the risk. JJ will throw a pick. It’s okay. Good things will happen from using the middle of the field as well.
Posted on 9/16/09 at 10:52 am to nycajun
You're giving the staff way too much credit.
It would be nice if there existed an ulterior motive, but it is more likely the result of inabilities.
If our offensive production consists of completing passes within 5-7 of the line of scrimmage (if that), Russell Shepard should be taking the snaps, period.
The play action to open the game was a vertical pass to a WIDE open Lafell. Incomplete. That set the tone for future coordination of the offense. We will struggle mightily against our better competition without a vertical passing game.
As others have pointed out, ball control is necessary for defensive purposes (i.e. Florida '07) and red zone scoring, which was a problem Saturday. I am damn sure the staff is aware of our problems. I'm just wondering if we possess the ability to overcome them with the present personnel.
Addressing your original post, I would say you are guilty of the same over-exaggeration of those you wish to condemn.
It would be nice if there existed an ulterior motive, but it is more likely the result of inabilities.
If our offensive production consists of completing passes within 5-7 of the line of scrimmage (if that), Russell Shepard should be taking the snaps, period.
The play action to open the game was a vertical pass to a WIDE open Lafell. Incomplete. That set the tone for future coordination of the offense. We will struggle mightily against our better competition without a vertical passing game.
As others have pointed out, ball control is necessary for defensive purposes (i.e. Florida '07) and red zone scoring, which was a problem Saturday. I am damn sure the staff is aware of our problems. I'm just wondering if we possess the ability to overcome them with the present personnel.
Addressing your original post, I would say you are guilty of the same over-exaggeration of those you wish to condemn.
Posted on 9/16/09 at 11:02 am to nycajun
Throwing 5 yards in the flat for some shitty screen when the 1st down is 15 yards away AIN'T GETTING IT DONE Cochise.
Posted on 9/16/09 at 11:03 am to wahoocs
The error in all of these arguments so far is that the first two games somehow dictate the games to come. We have stretched the field enough to win so far, and we will continue to do so in the remainder of the season (hopefully). What we do or don't want to see out of our offense is irrelevant. It's the coaches/ coordinators job to win games. Period. Until they fail to do so (which yes, will happen at some point) sit back, relax, and CTFO!
ETA - Wait that would make the rant kind of boring. Never mind. Quibble among yourselves.
ETA - Wait that would make the rant kind of boring. Never mind. Quibble among yourselves.
This post was edited on 9/16/09 at 11:07 am
Posted on 9/16/09 at 11:15 am to wahoocs
quote:
Addressing your original post, I would say you are guilty of the same over-exaggeration of those you wish to condemn.
Nah. Exaggeration, perhaps. But over-exaggeration?Never!
Posted on 9/16/09 at 11:25 am to Tiger_n_ATL
quote:
The fallacy of the long pass is not that they never try it, it's that the one's they did try were incomplete. Of course, only Rantards who don't understand football and have a political and social bumper sticker mentality don't see this. They tried several downfield passes the last game and they were either blown up by poor O-line blocking or badly thrown passes.
nycajun and Tiger n ATL
To paraphrase Paul Simon, "a man hears (sees) what he wants to hear (see) and disregards the rest (truth)."
Posted on 9/16/09 at 11:33 am to Baloo
quote:
Dickson seems to be the forgotten man in this offense. You cannot run an offense all season by giving up the middle of the field. Yes, there is more risk of an interception. There is also the reward of forcing the defense to play the whole field. We have to start looking at reward instead of only risk.
Chris Brown, who is the smartest cfb blogger currently going (sorry MD
), had the following commentary (Jeremiad?) regarding "Tresselball" and how Tressel's refusal to take any risks in his offense basically handed the game to USC last Saturday. LINK
Posted on 9/16/09 at 11:34 am to nycajun
Point taken.
Posted on 9/16/09 at 11:35 am to Cold Cous Cous
quote:
Chris Brown, who is the smartest cfb blogger currently going (sorry MD ), had the following commentary (Jeremiad?) regarding "Tresselball" and how Tressel's refusal to take any risks in his offense basically handed the game to USC last Saturday.
Agree with the depth, insight and overall accuracy of Brown's piece. That said, comparing USC vs. Ohio State and LSU vs. Vandy is comparing apples and elephants.
Posted on 9/16/09 at 11:37 am to Cold Cous Cous
Yeah, Chris Brown is better than I am. And that is an epic takedown of Tressel. Seriously, it might be the best college football piece written all year. I'm in awe of it.
Posted on 9/16/09 at 11:38 am to nycajun
I was mostly just looking for an excuse to post that link.
And I agree that the comparison is invalid, because USC and Ohio St have roughly the same talent levels. LSU and Vandy do not. Therefore, we didn't pay a price for failing to stretch the field vertically, because we could just outmuscle Vandy and wear them down by the 4th quarter. Ohio St. didn't have that option against USC; and we won't have that option against Florida.
And I agree that the comparison is invalid, because USC and Ohio St have roughly the same talent levels. LSU and Vandy do not. Therefore, we didn't pay a price for failing to stretch the field vertically, because we could just outmuscle Vandy and wear them down by the 4th quarter. Ohio St. didn't have that option against USC; and we won't have that option against Florida.
Posted on 9/16/09 at 11:40 am to Cold Cous Cous
quote:
we won't have that option against Florida.
Or Georgia for that matter. Which is why I think they need to get their machine hitting on all cylinders by the end of the MooU game.
Posted on 9/16/09 at 11:44 am to Chicken
quote:
ny, how about we just throw it DOWN field...this weekend, I watched countless NFL tight ends catch passes 15-20 yards down the middle the field. There is this large swatch of the field that we are completely avoiding.
It's not like we didn't throw downfield. Passes to Lafell and RJ come to mind. There were a couple others where JJ overthrew.
Posted on 9/16/09 at 11:46 am to siliconvalleytiger
I think most of us realize this, and there lies the rub.
Page 2 of 3
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News