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re: So You Don't Know Why Miles Might Want to Start Jefferson?
Posted on 11/18/11 at 8:31 am to MandevilleLSUTiger
Posted on 11/18/11 at 8:31 am to MandevilleLSUTiger
quote:
Absolutely. I think JJ's game coming out of high school- pass first, run only when absolutely necessary, was/is ideal.
I think he's been transformed into something he really isn't. That being said, his ability to run has greatly improved since 09 till now.
I saw JJ play in high school a few times. He had the benefit of having really good receivers on his team that seemed to always be open because high school DB's had no chance at covering them. Tim Molton was one of his receivers that was on LSU's team at one point. He did not have to run as much and the offense didn't seem like it was called for him to do that.
LSU has been a different story. He has been pushed into a dual threat QB role and it took a while but I really think he has grown into it. He looks improved to me. Running is worlds better. But we still only have a limited sample on him.
1
Posted on 11/18/11 at 8:39 am to BeeFense5
quote:
I saw JJ play in high school a few times. He had the benefit of having really good receivers on his team that seemed to always be open because high school DB's had no chance at covering them. Tim Molton was one of his receivers that was on LSU's team at one point. He did not have to run as much and the offense didn't seem like it was called for him to do that.
LSU has been a different story. He has been pushed into a dual threat QB role and it took a while but I really think he has grown into it. He looks improved to me. Running is worlds better. But we still only have a limited sample on him.
Agreed. Like I said, my only complaint would be him running too quickly at times. But its not that big of a deal, especially since he probably is picking up positive yardage anyway.
The point in my initial response is this- I understand what both QBs can do. I don't think JJ's skill set necessarily means he is the must play. Same for Lee. They still continue to do things the other can't. Some may disagree, but I think Lee's intermediate passing game is better.
And I maintain, we'll need both. But probably could win going 100% with either one as well.
Posted on 11/18/11 at 8:43 am to MandevilleLSUTiger
quote:
based on what transpired when he arrived to LSU, and the fact that he seemed basically brainwashed to be ultra conservative and never make a mistake (due to Lee's issues in 08), I think JJ has started to rely on running a bit too much, and it has a negative influence on his passing game.
I couldn't agree with you more.
quote:
When he breaks the pocket, his mind is made up. He doesn't run parallel to the line and keep his eyes downfield for a potential throw. He just runs.
I don't have a problem with that. Take what you can get. At least he is being decisive.
quote:
Sure you can. And its valid. I wonder what the breakdown would be of Oregon type offenses vs. more tradional style offenses. And IMO, to win at the highest level, against the best defenses, what Oregon does, doesn't work, because they can't rely on Thomas to throw. They essentially become one dimensional.
If you look at most of the top offenses they aren't pro style. The spread is the talent equalizer now just as the wishbone was at one time.
quote:
And IMO, to win at the highest level, against the best defenses, what Oregon does, doesn't work, because they can't rely on Thomas to throw. They essentially become one dimensional.
I agree. It looks good against any defense outside the SEC.
Posted on 11/18/11 at 8:43 am to MandevilleLSUTiger
quote:Ummm . . .
Agreed. Like I said, my only complaint would be him running too quickly at times. But its not that big of a deal, especially since he probably is picking up positive yardage anyway.
The point in my initial response is this- I understand what both QBs can do. I don't think JJ's skill set necessarily means he is the must play. Same for Lee. They still continue to do things the other can't. Some may disagree, but I think Lee's intermediate passing game is better.
And I maintain, we'll need both. But probably could win going 100% with either one as well.
Yeah, but . . .
Well sure, however . . .
Okay, I can't argue with any of that.
Posted on 11/18/11 at 8:45 am to MandevilleLSUTiger
quote:I miss Flynn.
Perfect scenario, IMO, is finding a traditional drop back passer with good feet (mobility) like a Flynn, etc. Flynn was a passer first.
And, funny, enough, I remember a notable degree of shite-talking against Flynn from rantards back in 07.
Posted on 11/18/11 at 8:50 am to MandevilleLSUTiger
quote:So you don't have a problem with the spread option offensive philosophy, just a preference for "pro" style QBs that can't efficiently operate it?
Nothing. I prefer pass first QBs, who if are mobile, use running at last resort.
quote:I prefer to think student. The game is evolving while revolving back and forth between it's roots and air raid.
Are you an X and O teacher?
Posted on 11/18/11 at 9:22 am to USMCTiger03
quote:There is an inexhaustible supply of ignorance in the world.
And, funny, enough, I remember a notable degree of shite-talking against Flynn from rantards back in 07.
You can put clear and simple facts in front of some people, and they will ignore them.
Posted on 11/18/11 at 9:31 am to Topwater Trout
quote:
JJ isn't a running QB. He is mobile.
He's both.
When, as a QB, you gain 600+ yds and score 7 TDs running the ball, I think you have to be mobile and able to run.
Like JJ as a QB or not, when he is in the game the D has to be concerned with him play faking, throwing the ball, and running the ball.
Posted on 11/18/11 at 9:33 am to just me
As a huge Flynn fan, I can say he looked really bad in a few games.
Posted on 11/18/11 at 9:37 am to just me
quote:
Okay, I can't argue with any of that
My response to you this morning, that started the running QB/ passing QB debate, was irrelevant once you admitted that LSU was effective prior to having JJ's skill set back in the offense.
Basically, I thought you were saying something that you weren't.
We could debate which style is more effective, but for LSU they seem to be equally effective. So the conversation would need to be about, say, Ok State and Oregon, two teams mentioned, and which style is more effective. Another thread, another day.
This post was edited on 11/18/11 at 9:43 am
Posted on 11/18/11 at 9:43 am to MandevilleLSUTiger
I am sure some of our RBs can carry the load the whole game, but they are rotated in and out.
So since neither QB is considerably better overall if the coaches want to rotate them I am fine with it.
Jefferson and Lee are probably not going to make it in the NFL so maybe it's a good thing both are having the opportunity to be part of this special season in their last year. I don't think the playing time should be just give to them, but they have both earned their playing time.
So since neither QB is considerably better overall if the coaches want to rotate them I am fine with it.
Jefferson and Lee are probably not going to make it in the NFL so maybe it's a good thing both are having the opportunity to be part of this special season in their last year. I don't think the playing time should be just give to them, but they have both earned their playing time.
Posted on 11/18/11 at 9:59 am to just me
quote:Do you think that the fact that he only has 34 attempts, 14 against creampuff WKU, might skew the numbers?
His number are outstanding this year,
I hope for the best, but I think there's still too little of a body of passing work from JJ this season to say for sure that he's where he needs to be. That's not his fault really (although his numbers against WKU could have been a lot better), he just hasn't had the opportunity.
One statistical thing about JJ that I suspect skews the stats is that he seems to have gotten into the habit of tucking and running rather than throwing an incomplete pass. In some cases he breaks out for a lot of yards, but often only picks up little yards.
You can debate either way which action is better for the game play (bearing in mind that sometimes throwing a pass, even if incomplete, raises the pass threat level, loosens up the Def, etc.). But it certainly skews the stats in his favor when the effect on the playing field is probably a wash (the benefit of throwing a pass vs. running for 1-3 yards.)
Do you see what I'm saying? It's just a hunch; when I have more time later I will look into it further.
Posted on 11/18/11 at 10:10 am to USMCTiger03
quote:
One statistical thing about JJ that I suspect skews the stats is that he seems to have gotten into the habit of tucking and running rather than throwing an incomplete pass. In some cases he breaks out for a lot of yards, but often only picks up little yards.
You can debate either way which action is better for the game play (bearing in mind that sometimes throwing a pass, even if incomplete, raises the pass threat level, loosens up the Def, etc.)
Wouldn't dropping back to pass (even if you eventually tuck and run) accomplish the same thing really in regard to "loosening up the defense"?
Seems he throws it enough that a D just can't assume he will tuck and run.
Posted on 11/18/11 at 10:13 am to MandevilleLSUTiger
quote:
once you admitted that LSU was effective prior to having JJ's skill set back in the offense.
Effective...yes.
Do we beat Bama without another skill set?
Conjecture, I know, but that win is highly doubtful. imo
We are 21-2 since 2010 and 10-0 this season for the 1st time since 58 cause we been QB'ed by both skill sets.
Posted on 11/18/11 at 10:20 am to USMCTiger03
quote:
One statistical thing about JJ that I suspect skews the stats is that he seems to have gotten into the habit of tucking and running rather than throwing an incomplete pass. In some cases he breaks out for a lot of yards, but often only picks up little yards.
You can debate either way which action is better for the game play (bearing in mind that sometimes throwing a pass, even if incomplete, raises the pass threat level, loosens up the Def, etc.). But it certainly skews the stats in his favor when the effect on the playing field is probably a wash (the benefit of throwing a pass vs. running for 1-3 yards.)
Do you see what I'm saying? It's just a hunch; when I have more time later I will look into it further.
Wouldn't the running threat loosen up the defense more than throwing an incomplete pass?
An incomplete pass means that the defense won the play and all is well. A QB scrambling for positive yards means they didn't and will be more worried next time.
Also, while the yardage is the same, a run for no gain keeps the clock running while an incomplete pass doesn't, and while its just a guess, I think Miles prefers the former, especially in the second half.
This post was edited on 11/18/11 at 10:23 am
Posted on 11/18/11 at 10:23 am to USMCTiger03
quote:
I remember a notable degree of shite-talking against Flynn from rantards back in 07
If they had the rant in the 80's they would have been talking shite about Hodson
Posted on 11/18/11 at 10:25 am to Topwater Trout
quote:
If they had the rant in the 80's they would have been talking shite about Hodson
You didn't need the rant for that.
PUT IN MICKEY GUIDRY!!!!
Posted on 11/18/11 at 10:52 am to AlxTgr
The Alabama game that year was really scaring me with Flynn throwing picks so much.
Posted on 11/18/11 at 10:55 am to USMCTiger03
quote:I would imagine some of this is by instruction. 1-3yds, occaisional 10-15yds is a more favorable result than inc or int in most coaches eyes.
One statistical thing about JJ that I suspect skews the stats is that he seems to have gotten into the habit of tucking and running rather than throwing an incomplete pass. In some cases he breaks out for a lot of yards, but often only picks up little yards.
There's a fine line to walk between sticking with the route and bailing, but it has been tightroped ok so far. No game is perfect.
Posted on 11/18/11 at 12:10 pm to Mayhawman
(no message)
This post was edited on 11/18/11 at 12:18 pm
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