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So, the real question regarding 2019 LSU being the GOAT
Posted on 5/19/20 at 3:03 pm
Posted on 5/19/20 at 3:03 pm
You can find arguments all over the internet discussing which team is the greatest football team of all time. You find all sorts of opinions as to why 2001 Miami is the best team of all time. Usually the argument has to do with how good their defense was and also how many players were selected in the NFL draft.
The real question is which team would win the game in a head up match up? We already know LSU destroyed Clemson’s #1 defense in America handily. Who in their right mind thinks that 2001 Miami would have a snowballs chance in hell of staying on the field with 2019 LSU? 2001 Miami, with Ken Dorsey at QB, isn’t going to run up and down the field on 2019 LSU’s defense anymore than Clemson could. Hell, 2019 Clemson was a better offense than 2001 Miami. Furthermore, 2001 Miami certainly isn’t going to be the only team to challenge the 2019 LSU offense or slow it down. I don’t think there is any question that 2019 LSU would win a head to head match up handily.
2001 Miami simply can’t slow down Joe Burrow, no matter who they have on their team. On top of all of that, we know that 2019 LSU produced more NFL draft picks in the first NFL draft after their title than any team in college football history; including 2001 Miami. End of story !
The real question is which team would win the game in a head up match up? We already know LSU destroyed Clemson’s #1 defense in America handily. Who in their right mind thinks that 2001 Miami would have a snowballs chance in hell of staying on the field with 2019 LSU? 2001 Miami, with Ken Dorsey at QB, isn’t going to run up and down the field on 2019 LSU’s defense anymore than Clemson could. Hell, 2019 Clemson was a better offense than 2001 Miami. Furthermore, 2001 Miami certainly isn’t going to be the only team to challenge the 2019 LSU offense or slow it down. I don’t think there is any question that 2019 LSU would win a head to head match up handily.
2001 Miami simply can’t slow down Joe Burrow, no matter who they have on their team. On top of all of that, we know that 2019 LSU produced more NFL draft picks in the first NFL draft after their title than any team in college football history; including 2001 Miami. End of story !
This post was edited on 5/19/20 at 3:07 pm
19
Posted on 5/19/20 at 3:05 pm to HuckFinn
I don’t think anyone here disagrees with you
Posted on 5/19/20 at 3:08 pm to HuckFinn
quote:
The real question is which team would win the game in a head up match up.
Posted on 5/19/20 at 3:09 pm to HuckFinn
Not the same era of football so its really hard to know for sure.
But what is not hard to know for sure is that no team in CFB history so far had a shot at stopping the 2019 offense.
But what is not hard to know for sure is that no team in CFB history so far had a shot at stopping the 2019 offense.
Posted on 5/19/20 at 3:30 pm to Lsu101205
I think 2019 LSU was clearly the best college football team. But, it is nice that the only legitimate debate is only between two teams.
Posted on 5/19/20 at 3:37 pm to HuckFinn
quote:
On top of all of that, we know that 2019 LSU produced more NFL draft picks in the first NFL draft after their title than any team in college football history; including 2001 Miami.
It's still too early for this debate imo.
The 2001 Miami team didn't only produce NFL draft picks, they produced NFL STARTERS.
In fact, the 01 Miami team is about as close as you'll get to an actual NFL team.
Hopefully we'll be saying the same thing about the 2019 LSU team in a few years.
Posted on 5/19/20 at 3:39 pm to Lsu101205
quote:
Not the same era of football so its really hard to know for sure.
The debate is meaningless unless one adjusts for strength and record vs. opponents; not just overwhelming scoring.
I'm not a student of football history and I'm not going to research it, but suppose a team from the early days went 8-0, including four big-name opponents at the time, maybe like Suwanee, with an average scoring margin of +12 points in an era when the average score was 10-6? Relative to the general quality of play and caliber of opponents in that era, wouldn't such a team have just as much claim to "greatest of all time" as 2019 LSU?
It's all relative and there is no correct answer.
Posted on 5/19/20 at 4:03 pm to BigSlick
quote:The "greatest team of all time" has to either mean:
It's all relative and there is no correct answer.
1) In a hypothetical game against any other team with a claim to be the GOAT, which team would win and how likely is that outcome.
or
2) Relative to other teams in the same era, how dominant were they.
So for 1) LSU would clearly beat 95 Neb, 01 Miami, or whoever else you want to name.
And for 2) LSU beat 5 of the final AP top 8, by an average of about 20 points. No other team has a resume remotely close to that. To me, the only team with an argument is the Gen. Neyland Tennessee team that shutout everybody. Except that they were themselves shutout in their final game (Rose Bowl) by USC. Kind of more like 2011 LSU than 2019 LSU
tldr; LSU is GOAT by any reasonable measure.
Posted on 5/19/20 at 4:09 pm to BigSlick
quote:
The debate is meaningless unless one adjusts for strength and record vs. opponents; not just overwhelming scoring.
I am more referencing our style of offense. No team from the 90s and early 2000s would know how to handle a team like LSU going empty 50% of the time. Let alone have the DBs to handle it.
Posted on 5/19/20 at 4:23 pm to HuckFinn
Here the issue with discussing which team would win... are you talking LSU 2019 talent with 2019 scheme vs Miami 2001 talent with 2001 scheme;
Or are we talking LSU talent 2019 with 2019 scheme vs Miami 2001 talent under 2019 schemes (vise versa)
Also insert whatever year Bama/Nebraska/Florida/etc
Schemes chance. Miami 2001 Defense would shite a brick at what 2019 LSU was drawing up....but LSU wouldn’t know those schemes in 2001
Or are we talking LSU talent 2019 with 2019 scheme vs Miami 2001 talent under 2019 schemes (vise versa)
Also insert whatever year Bama/Nebraska/Florida/etc
Schemes chance. Miami 2001 Defense would shite a brick at what 2019 LSU was drawing up....but LSU wouldn’t know those schemes in 2001
Posted on 5/19/20 at 4:25 pm to Chimlim
Miami played no top-10 teams during the regular season.
Played #4 Nebraska in the final game.
If they played in the SEC, they'd have lost 1 or 2 games minimum - in the ACC they didn't take the weekly physical punishment the SEC dishes out.
Played #4 Nebraska in the final game.
If they played in the SEC, they'd have lost 1 or 2 games minimum - in the ACC they didn't take the weekly physical punishment the SEC dishes out.
Posted on 5/19/20 at 4:26 pm to HuckFinn
I’m convinced 2019 LSU is the best college football team ever; and no subjective / hypothetical argument is gonna change my mind so...I’m content. No “real question” based on other peoples opinions.
Posted on 5/19/20 at 4:36 pm to HuckFinn
Half of the good NFL players on that 2001 team barely played in 2001...
Posted on 5/19/20 at 5:03 pm to HuckFinn
That is going to be a hard sell on this board buddy. Prepare for some rigorous debate.
This post was edited on 5/19/20 at 5:06 pm
Posted on 5/19/20 at 5:33 pm to Buckeye Jeaux
quote:
in the ACC they didn't take the weekly physical punishment the SEC dishes out.
Not to mention the Big East Conference, of which Miami was a member in 2001.
Posted on 5/19/20 at 6:51 pm to HuckFinn
Posted on 5/19/20 at 7:00 pm to Eyebesmacinhose
quote:
Not to mention the Big East Conference, of which Miami was a member in 2001.
Yeah. True. But, same teams essentially
Posted on 5/19/20 at 7:13 pm to Chimlim
Let’s compare 2001 Miami to 2019 LSU:
Miami played one top 10 ranked team the entire season and won by 3 points in the national championship game (34-31). Worst wins: A 2 point (26-24) win over then 14th ranked Va. Tech (final rank 18) and an 18-7 win over unranked BC (final rank 21). During the season, only played 4 ranked teams when played (15, 13, 11, 4). Based on final rankings, 1 top ten team, and 5 other top 25 teams ( Nos. 11,14, 18, 19 & 21).
2019 LSU
7 top ten teams when played. National championship margin of victory, 17 points against the then number one scoring defense in the country. Worst wins: 3 point victory over the then the number 9 team (final rank 13) and a 5 point win over the then number 2 ranked team (final rank 8). During the season, LSU beat 5 top final top 10 teams, including nos. 2, 4, 6, 7 & 8, plus the nos. 13 and 25.
Miami had a lot of talent, but LSU had the better season, and very arguably the better team based on the achievements of the season and the level of competition. It is really hard to justify ranking 2001 Miami ahead of 2019 LSU if one compares the records and performance. Having the best talent doesn’t always mean having the best team. What the team accomplished when they played as a team matters most, not what the players did on other teams in the NFL.
Posted on 5/19/20 at 8:50 pm to HuckFinn
Is not a fair comparison would they play under 2001 rules or 2019? Also the 2 teams were built for the rules of the time. So a comparison doesn't work.
Posted on 5/19/20 at 9:27 pm to HuckFinn
These hypotheticals about ‘all time’ teams ALWAYS goes player by player for comparison
Same thing for in season matchups. I think it’s foolish to do it that way. Could Miami’s defensive coordinators out scheme Ensminger and Brady? Doubt it.. could Miami’s offensive coordinator out scheme Aranda and company? Who knows
LSU would win by 17+
Same thing for in season matchups. I think it’s foolish to do it that way. Could Miami’s defensive coordinators out scheme Ensminger and Brady? Doubt it.. could Miami’s offensive coordinator out scheme Aranda and company? Who knows
LSU would win by 17+
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