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re: Really think about Les Miles. And how amazing LSU won despite him.
Posted on 6/18/24 at 11:46 am to lsufanva
Posted on 6/18/24 at 11:46 am to lsufanva
In 11 full seasons at LSU, MIles' worst season was 8 wins. He had two of them in 11 years. Those were the only two season when LSU did not finish in the AP Top Twenty. Miles never had a season where LSU was not ranked in the AP Top Ten at some point in the season. He had double-digit wins in 7 of his 11 seasons.
Saban's worst season was 8 wins. He had 2 of them in 5 years. Those were two season when LSU did not finish in the AP Top Twenty. He had 2 double-digit wins seasons.
Orgeron had a 5-win season and a 6-win season. Like Saban, Orgeron had 2 double-digit win seasons in his 5 years.
Arnsparger had an 8-win season in 3 years. He never had a double-digit win season. Arnsparger never finished higher than #10 in the AP.
In 18 years, Charles McClendon had a 4-win season, two 5-win seasons, a 6-win season, three 7-win seasons, and four 8 win seasons. (McClendon typically had 11 games pius a bowl game. Miles typically had 12 games plus a bowl game.) McClendon never finished higher than #7 in the AP.
DiNardo, Hallman, Archer, and Stovall all had multiple seasons of five or fewer wins.
Miles had, far and away, the most consistent success of any coach at LSU.
Saban's worst season was 8 wins. He had 2 of them in 5 years. Those were two season when LSU did not finish in the AP Top Twenty. He had 2 double-digit wins seasons.
Orgeron had a 5-win season and a 6-win season. Like Saban, Orgeron had 2 double-digit win seasons in his 5 years.
Arnsparger had an 8-win season in 3 years. He never had a double-digit win season. Arnsparger never finished higher than #10 in the AP.
In 18 years, Charles McClendon had a 4-win season, two 5-win seasons, a 6-win season, three 7-win seasons, and four 8 win seasons. (McClendon typically had 11 games pius a bowl game. Miles typically had 12 games plus a bowl game.) McClendon never finished higher than #7 in the AP.
DiNardo, Hallman, Archer, and Stovall all had multiple seasons of five or fewer wins.
Miles had, far and away, the most consistent success of any coach at LSU.
1
Posted on 6/18/24 at 11:49 am to nicholastiger
quote:
O was a bigger moron then Miles but caught lightning in a bottle
How do you account for O's success at almost every other stop he made in his coaching career?
As Interim HC at SC, he righted the ship mid season, after Lane Kiffen was fired. Some wanted to hire him but he was let go andSouthern Cal returned to mediocrity and still hasn't recovered.
Posted on 6/18/24 at 11:50 am to Salviati
quote:
Miles had, far and away, the most consistent success of any coach at LSU.
While also inheriting easily the best situation of any coach in our history, both before or since. That has to be taken into account.
Posted on 6/18/24 at 11:53 am to Covingtontiger77
Yeah, he had good assistant coaches and a little luck. Morons do tend to over achieve in some cases. Biden is a good example of Miles.
Posted on 6/18/24 at 11:58 am to 904
quote:
O was a bigger moron then Miles but caught lightning in a bottle until he forgot how to manage a roster
Bullshyte At least he knew we needed an upgrade at the QB position and went out and got the key ingredient to create that so called lightning. Les dumb arse would have went with the qbs on the roster
Posted on 6/18/24 at 12:06 pm to Tiger985
quote:
Les Miles record speaks for itself.
A record that isn’t good enough to qualify for the hall of fame?
Posted on 6/18/24 at 12:06 pm to Covingtontiger77
quote:
Scheming?
Coaching a specific position group of specialty?
Obviously a very good OL coach. Played OL for Bo Schembechler & coached it for 15+ years.
Ultimately his downfall as a coach as well bc he was too old school & opted for toss dive instead of a spread offense.
He tried to evolve by bringing in Cam Cameron & Mettenberger, but he still meddled with the offense too much
Posted on 6/18/24 at 12:08 pm to nicholastiger
quote:
O was a bigger moron then Miles but caught lightning in a bottle until he forgot how to manage a roster
O did 'catch lightning in a bottle' but he was not a moron or buffoon. I'm not even sure 'he forgot'. He just got distracted and his priorities shifted. In blunt terms, 'he quit'.
Posted on 6/18/24 at 12:10 pm to 904
quote:In Saban's last three years at LSU, he had an 8-win season and a 9-win season.
While also inheriting easily the best situation of any coach in our history, both before or since. That has to be taken into account.
Five years after Osborne left Nebraska, Frank Solich had a 7-win season, and the next season he was fired.
Four years after Switzer left Oklahoma, Gary Gibbs won only 5 games. He never had a double-digit win season.
Lane Kiffin fell off a cliff after Carroll left USC.
Only a good coach can maintain a good program.
Posted on 6/18/24 at 12:13 pm to UnluckyTiger
quote:It is good enough to qualify for the Hall of Fame if the vacated wins are added back in. LSU offered to vacate the wins because of the OLOL Foundation scandal and Will Wade. The wins were not vacated because of Les Miles.
A record that isn’t good enough to qualify for the hall of fame?
Posted on 6/18/24 at 12:18 pm to nicholastiger
quote:
until he forgot how to manage a roster
Which Coach did O hire that was inadequate in comparison to Kelly's?
His Special Team Coach was far superior to Kelly.
His QB Coach is still in the NFL.
Three if his hires were fired by Kelly, but their replacements were so inadequate, Kelly rehired them .
The only one that was a Joke was the DC, and Woody hired him.
Posted on 6/18/24 at 12:22 pm to 904
quote:
The difference is, Saban and Kirby weren't/aren't costing their teams 2-3 games a season because of mismatched scheme and horrific game management gaffes.
Yet Kirby Smart is 1-5 against Saban. Georgia very well could be running on a 4-5 year dynasty but Saban has stood in the way. Saban and Bama did the same to Les. Cost us 2011 and multiple years after (one with Mett/OBJ/Landry and the year of Fournette's early Heisman campaign) we were in a Natty run and Saban and Bama derailed the season.
Posted on 6/18/24 at 12:33 pm to Salviati
quote:
Five years after Osborne left Nebraska, Frank Solich had a 7-win season, and the next season he was fired.
Everyone had caught up to Nebraska's S&C program by then which was their big advantage at the time. It's not a fertile recruiting ground and they have been stale ever since and will be for the foreseeable future.
quote:
Four years after Switzer left Oklahoma, Gary Gibbs won only 5 games. He never had a double-digit win season. Lane Kiffin fell off a cliff after Carroll left USC.
Gibbs wasn't a good coach, and Lane had a ton of growing up to do and clearly wasn't ready for a big job at that time.
quote:
Only a good coach can maintain a good program.
Les was good at recruiting and motivating which, given the fantastic situation he walked into, was good enough to beat most of the teams on his schedule, despite his shortcomings in the areas such as strategy and game management that actual great coaches get praised for. The result was a consistently good program for the first half of his tenure with a fall-off in the second half, but also a whole lot of unrealized potential throughout.
I'm not saying it couldn't have been worse because it absolutely could have been... I'm just saying that also it could've been much better.
Posted on 6/18/24 at 12:35 pm to Covingtontiger77
I remember the first press conference being very underwhelmed but thinking hey, public speaking isn't everyone's thing. Then what was it - that first are second game of his tenure he's trying to call a valuable timeout near the end of the game and his guy who follows him around carrying the headset wire nearly had to body check him to stop him from the mistake.
I kinda started wondering if that guy who spoke in that press conference and this guy on the sideline are one in the same.
He won fairly consistently so I tried to dismiss the notion, yeah - several times he seemed to pull horseshoes out his arse but I allowed it.
Eventually when the clock management things kept happening over and over, the stubbornness on offense when most others had adjusted and the frontier gibberish kept coming out of the mouth - I again harkened back, maybe the first impression was correct.
Some said the gibberish was a front, a Columbo-like facade to give folks a false sense of superiority, but over the years I saw him in enough situations outside of times when that would be necessary - to know it was not a facade....it's who he was.
That he won to the extent he did still amazes me. I you have to give him some credit, but I think it really speaks to the tremendous jewel of a situation here for football that both he and O won national titles.
I kinda started wondering if that guy who spoke in that press conference and this guy on the sideline are one in the same.
He won fairly consistently so I tried to dismiss the notion, yeah - several times he seemed to pull horseshoes out his arse but I allowed it.
Eventually when the clock management things kept happening over and over, the stubbornness on offense when most others had adjusted and the frontier gibberish kept coming out of the mouth - I again harkened back, maybe the first impression was correct.
Some said the gibberish was a front, a Columbo-like facade to give folks a false sense of superiority, but over the years I saw him in enough situations outside of times when that would be necessary - to know it was not a facade....it's who he was.
That he won to the extent he did still amazes me. I you have to give him some credit, but I think it really speaks to the tremendous jewel of a situation here for football that both he and O won national titles.
Posted on 6/18/24 at 12:46 pm to Covingtontiger77
I don't think this is completely the case.
Remember - prior to Saban we had no history of consistently winning.
Miles - hired all of the assistant coaches that recruited, trained and coordinated his teams.
He kept us in Prime Time, 10 win and Top 10 seasons year over year for a long time.
He sustained a HIGH LEVEL program for nearly a decade and fielded some of the best teams we've ever had here.
You guys don't have to like it - but the facts are - LSU became an ever bigger brand, made lots of money, got a ton of attention and put an incredible number of guys in the NFL during his tenure.
Remember - prior to Saban we had no history of consistently winning.
Miles - hired all of the assistant coaches that recruited, trained and coordinated his teams.
He kept us in Prime Time, 10 win and Top 10 seasons year over year for a long time.
He sustained a HIGH LEVEL program for nearly a decade and fielded some of the best teams we've ever had here.
You guys don't have to like it - but the facts are - LSU became an ever bigger brand, made lots of money, got a ton of attention and put an incredible number of guys in the NFL during his tenure.
Posted on 6/18/24 at 12:48 pm to Covingtontiger77
7 x 10+ win seasons
5 x seasons finishing in the Top 10
2 x SEC Championships
And won 1 National Championship, played for another one
How many 1st round draft picks did he coach.
5 x seasons finishing in the Top 10
2 x SEC Championships
And won 1 National Championship, played for another one
How many 1st round draft picks did he coach.
Posted on 6/18/24 at 12:49 pm to OzChuffnugg
quote:
Yet Kirby Smart is 1-5 against Saban. Georgia very well could be running on a 4-5 year dynasty but Saban has stood in the way. Saban and Bama did the same to Les. Cost us 2011 and multiple years after (one with Mett/OBJ/Landry and the year of Fournette's early Heisman campaign) we were in a Natty run and Saban and Bama derailed the season.
Kirby would be 3-3 against Saban with a 3rd Championship if a couple plays go Georgia's way instead of Bama's, not really to the fault of Kirby. They've almost always looked well-coached and competent against Saban.
Les usually had the guys playing hard, but you always felt that Saban was playing with his food even if you didn't want to admit it at the time. Kirby doesn't lose 21-0 with that 2011 LSU team in New Orleans. Miles couldn't even cross the 50 until the 4th quarter for Christ' sake
Posted on 6/18/24 at 1:50 pm to 904
quote:
Kirby would be 3-3 against Saban with a 3rd Championship if a couple plays go Georgia's way instead of Bama's, not really to the fault of Kirby. They've almost always looked well-coached and competent against Saban.
Les usually had the guys playing hard, but you always felt that Saban was playing with his food even if you didn't want to admit it at the time. Kirby doesn't lose 21-0 with that 2011 LSU team in New Orleans. Miles couldn't even cross the 50 until the 4th quarter for Christ' sake
Same could be said about Les Miles' years against Alabama. A long TJ Yeldon screen and a non-Patrick Peterson interception immediately comes to mind. Can't play the what if games.
I will not make any excuses for Miles in the 2011 Natty and agree that post Mettenberger teams, Miles looked lost against Bama. But who hasn't outside of Dabo and maybe Kirby? But prior to beating Bama in the 2021 Ship, Kirby had a lost looking team in the 2021 SEC championship vs Bama and they looked like shite this past SEC championship with an undefeated team and a three peat on the line. That is why it is bogus that LSU fans think we would've won 2-3 more with another coach outside of Miles. Saban would have never let it happen regardless of who was leading our squad. Only a handful of teams have had multiple opportunities to best Saban and win championships during the Saban era. That was us, Ohio State, Clemson, and UGA.
Posted on 6/18/24 at 1:58 pm to Covingtontiger77
When I tried to post this kind of stuff during his later years at LSU, it drew quite the avalanche of downvotes.
Coach Les Miles has had some kind of brain damage for decades, and for much of his time at LSU.
And as for the folks who always defended him because "he is a good man", well, that was always debatable.
Coach Les Miles has had some kind of brain damage for decades, and for much of his time at LSU.
And as for the folks who always defended him because "he is a good man", well, that was always debatable.
Posted on 6/18/24 at 1:59 pm to tgdk11
quote:don't blame jj. you would have that look too if les miles called your plays. jj did pretty well considering his buffoon coach.
without Jefferson deer in headlights look all night, might have gotten a 2nd one
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