Started By
Message

re: PREVIEW: LSU vs Michigan State March 29th 6:09pm CBS

Posted on 3/27/19 at 8:08 am to
Posted by spartanwall3
Member since Mar 2019
5 posts
Posted on 3/27/19 at 8:08 am to
We're not saying that Loyer should get minutes, just that he's not a walk-on. He scored 40+ points in the state title game his senior year, has great decision making, an amazing shot, and won Mr. Basketball in Michigan. His game hasn't translated to the college level because he's 5'11" 170 pounds and slow, and he will get destroyed against LSU. Our loss at Louisville, Cassius fouled out and Loyer played the last 4 minutes of regulation plus overtime, which caused our loss if you care enough to watch how physically outmatched he was.

Winston needs to play 38-40 minutes and not be in foul trouble or MSU will 100% lose this game. And while Cassius is not fast, he knows how to get position on guys to get an open shot/layup, and always finds the open man. He just needs to play defense on the worst offensive player for LSU so that he doesn't have to exert as much energy or get fouls on defense.
Posted by GeauxSox24
Member since Mar 2019
68 posts
Posted on 3/27/19 at 8:35 am to
On defense I would expect Waters on Winston, Mays on McQuaid, and Taylor on Henry. While not ideal, Winston is the only person Waters can guard because he likes to help off his man and go for steals. You can not do this when there is an elite shooter like McQuaid (43% from 3) and Henry would be able to use his size and athleticism on Waters. If our backcourt holds up, our front court will be able to take advantage of mismatches.
Posted by Alt26
Member since Mar 2010
34156 posts
Posted on 3/27/19 at 8:47 am to
quote:

He just needs to play defense on the worst offensive player for LSU so that he doesn't have to exert as much energy or get fouls on defense.


That would be Marlon Taylor. But Taylor is 6'5 and a tremendous athlete. What little offensive game he has is all power and outrageous leaping ability. I'm not quite sure Izzo would like that matchup if you're trying to keep Winston away from fouls. Taylor is a slasher. You could put him on Mays who, while not necessarily an explosive athlete, is very savvy and will surprise you with unexpected bursts of athleticism. He's quietly been LSU's leading scorer in the first two tournament games.

The problem you run into with that is who is going to guard Waters? Like Winston, he's LSU's engine and generally a tough matchup. Do you put a bigger, less quick player on Waters? He usually handles those matchups well and LSU's offense is at its best when he penetrates the lane and either scores or sets someone up for a dunk/layup

I can't see Winston guarding anyone except Waters, because Waters on anyone else is probably a mismatch Izzo doesn't want. Either way, it should be a tremendous PG battle. Neither guy looks physically imposing, but both can complete control a game. My big worry with Waters is his risk-taking style of defense. He has huge steal numbers and can be a pest on defense. However, he has a tendency to strictly look to force steals and in the process, get out of position an leave guys with easy shots.

You guys would know better than me, but I think MSU is going to pack it in a bit, go under ball screens and make LSU prove they can consistently hit 3's. (something they haven't done all year). Conversely, LSU's guards are going to try to get it on the rim and attack any misses with 6'10 and 6'11 length
Posted by S
RIP Wayde
Member since Jan 2007
168939 posts
Posted on 3/27/19 at 9:02 am to
You are probably more familiar with both these teams than anyone
Posted by spartanwall3
Member since Mar 2019
5 posts
Posted on 3/27/19 at 9:10 am to
quote:

but I think MSU is going to pack it in a bit, go under ball screens and make LSU prove they can consistently hit 3's.


I'm almost positive they'll do this. They did this against Simpson on Michigan all 3 times because he's a great driver and only 31% on 3's, and based on the stats, your main 3 point shooters are all 30-35%. In general their identity on defense is to not allow layups, contest every shot, don't get beat going for a steal, and rebound. Although Tillman Ward and Goins all average over a block per game.

Only comparison I have for matchups is that your guards are a lot like Purdue's. An elite, short point guard (carson edwards/waters), and an athletic, tall shooting guard (eastern / mays, smart, taylor). In that case mcquaid guarded edwards, and winston guarded eastern. Purdue posted up on winston a lot, but not very effectively. It will be interesting for sure to see what they do. Izzo is all about trying to find any bit of rest he can for winston, because he is not coming out at all this game unless they build a big lead at some point.
Posted by Manswers
Michigan
Member since Feb 2009
3727 posts
Posted on 3/27/19 at 9:16 am to
Excellent preview by the OP and excellent exchanges by both MSU and LSU commenters. This really has been great. I grew up in Baton Rouge but live in Michigan and have a bunch of great MSU and U of M fans as friends. All class guys. It's a shame we have to face each other now and one will be going home.

It was just a little bit before my time following basketball, but I am reminded of another LSU-MSU Sweet 16 matchup. It was the year MSU won it all with Magic as PG. I would love to see a recording of that game if any Sparty fans have access.

Can anyone post a link to that game?
Posted by ArnoldTPantsEsq
Member since Mar 2019
10 posts
Posted on 3/27/19 at 9:19 am to
Loyer has limited minutes, but that is primarily, as I said, because Izzo wants Winston on the floor as much as possible. There is a difference between a walk-on and a fairly highly rated freshman who is a scholarship player. Loyer is not ideal, but he isn't a walk-on. I find the back-tracking from "walk-on" to "I meant walk-on numbers," somewhat eye-rolling.

You are absolutely correct about length. Most of MSU blocks are from help defense on perimeter players, versus blocks in post defense. Tillman, who is arguably short for a 5, has a knack for delaying his help on a driving guard until the guard is committed to a lay-up, and then swatting it out of bounds. MSU has a lot less length than last season, but more blocked shots.

Michigan tried to penetrate as much as possible in the 2nd matchup, and a lot of those shot attempts were blocked. But MSU is not swatting a lot of post-up attempts.

Ultimately I think MSU needs to hang onto the damn ball ball to win. LSU I think needs to get its crap together with shot selection.

Posted by UnluckyTiger
Member since Sep 2003
41789 posts
Posted on 3/27/19 at 9:30 am to
Bingo. It’s all about shot selection with this team. We play some brilliant basketball at times and then it’s as if we throw everything out the window in the first 15 minutes of the second half. It’s literally the same story in 90% of our games. Watching us jack up 3s against Maryland in the second half last week was infuriating. Our opening possession was a 3 pt attempt and I knew then and there we were about to blow the lead.
This post was edited on 3/27/19 at 9:31 am
Posted by GeauxSox24
Member since Mar 2019
68 posts
Posted on 3/27/19 at 9:32 am to
quote:

I can't see Winston guarding anyone except Waters


This is the matchup LSU needs to exploit. Waters usually struggles against defenders with length and size which Winston does not possess. He is their worst defender and will be avoiding fouls at all costs because they need him on the floor all game. Don’t be surprised if McQuaid guards Waters in spurts as he is their best defender and did a wonderful job in both games against Carsen Edwards (7/35 shooting). LSU is at their best when Waters is able to get into the lane. If McQuaid is on Waters I would immediately take advantage of Winston on Mays as his slashing ability/size could present a problem for Michigan State defensively. If Winston is able to contain Waters that would make it very difficult for LSU to win
Posted by Alt26
Member since Mar 2010
34156 posts
Posted on 3/27/19 at 10:15 am to
quote:

Don’t be surprised if McQuaid guards Waters in spurts as he is their best defender and did a wonderful job in both games against Carsen Edwards (7/35 shooting).


Good post. After reading some comments on the board, I agree.

Edwards and Waters seem to be comparable in many respects. But Edwards, while he can set up others, is asked to handle the bulk of the scoring load for Purdue. They only have one other player who avg. double-figures and that guys averages 12 points less than Edwards. If you can keep Edwards from scoring Purdue is in a lot of trouble.

On the flip side, while Waters can go off and have a huge scoring night, LSU doesn't ask him to carry the scoring load. He's asked to control the offense and averages 3 more assist per game than Edwards. LSU can still win without Waters puting up huge scoring numbers. What they desperately need from Waters is to not turn the ball over. He's generally good for about 2-3 WTF was that! passes a game
Posted by ArnoldTPantsEsq
Member since Mar 2019
10 posts
Posted on 3/27/19 at 10:22 am to
MSU will pack it in to prevent penetration - that is the Izzo way. However, they usually do not go under ball screens unless it is a player that shoots a poor percentage from 3. Typically 30% or less. Zavier Simpson of Michigan was one guy who fit that bill, but it is unusual for MSU. Izzo wants to pack it in, go over screens to prevent 3pt shots, and wants the bigs to hedge to prevent the drive. Tillman and Goins are good at it. Ward has his issues.

In the case of Michigan, which is a team that does not typically do much post-up offense, and is not good at entry passes, they switched on every single screen, because Tillman (5) and Goins (4) can guard perimeter players. That left Winston on a 7 foot tall center on the switch, but Michigan had a tough time making an entry pass to exploit it, and the switch back was very quick, so Michigan had little time to get it done.
Posted by SpartyGator
Detroit Lions fan
Member since Oct 2011
81912 posts
Posted on 3/27/19 at 10:27 am to
Posted by SouthOfSouth
Baton Rouge
Member since Jun 2008
43577 posts
Posted on 3/27/19 at 10:30 am to
The interesting thing about LSU is for a team that scores most of their points in the paint, they do not throw it into posted up bigs very often. We aren't very savvy with our back to the basket. It may happen a time or two in our game but we really are an exclusively front up scoring team. We drive to the hoop for layups, dribble and pass for layups, or rebound and put up layups.
Posted by PhillyFan1994
Member since Sep 2012
2032 posts
Posted on 3/27/19 at 11:17 am to
quote:

The interesting thing about LSU is for a team that scores most of their points in the paint, they do not throw it into posted up bigs very often. We aren't very savvy with our back to the basket. It may happen a time or two in our game but we really are an exclusively front up scoring team. We drive to the hoop for layups, dribble and pass for layups, or rebound and put up layups.


They try to post Reid up but he often doesn't have the lower body strength to bully people in the paint. Also, he loves to float around the perimeter and try to either shoot or take guys off the dribble. Kavell is more in the mold of a DeAndre Jordan or Clint Capela in that he is a good lob threat and defensive presence but he just doesn't have any real back to the basket game.
Posted by SouthOfSouth
Baton Rouge
Member since Jun 2008
43577 posts
Posted on 3/27/19 at 11:23 am to
quote:

They try to post Reid up but he often doesn't have the lower body strength to bully people in the paint.


There are very very few times where I feel like it's a true post up. It's normally back to basket 15 ft out... No chance of doing anything that far away. Occasionally posts in the paint but it's rare. I don't mind us doing it 5ft from the basket but the 15 ft thing is basically LSU hoping for a double team so he can pass out of it.
Posted by SoFresh
New Orleans
Member since May 2010
3078 posts
Posted on 3/27/19 at 11:59 am to
Thoughts on LSU's main rotation? We obviously like to have three ball handlers on the floor and the Waters-Mays-Smart lineup is so deadly, but with MSU playing three forwards the entire game, will we deviate? That Henry kid is more of a wing and I'm sure Taylor can lock him down easily, but can Smart matchup with him?

Also, I'm curious if we see Taylor play on either Winston or McQuaid. He's so good at d that he could be pretty effective against either.
Posted by DesertTiger79
El Paso TX
Member since Nov 2018
69 posts
Posted on 3/27/19 at 12:04 pm to
LSUButt - Please repost the latest LSU Team stats for comparison. Thanks!
Posted by LSUButt
Lowcountry
Member since Jan 2006
15895 posts
Posted on 3/27/19 at 12:08 pm to
quote:

I find the back-tracking from "walk-on" to "I meant walk-on numbers," somewhat eye-rolling.



ok. You can eye-roll all you wish, I stand by that Loyer has walk-on type numbers. You can say there is a difference, but look at our backup guard off the bench vs yours. Then look at our "walk-on" Marshall Graves who would get minutes on many many other teams if there weren't 4 better players in front of him.

I'm sure Foster Loyer will be great as a Junior and Senior, but my point remains the same. If Loyer gets any extended action MSU is in trouble. I would think you would admit that considering the guys overall numbers and not outlier games against Ohio State and Green Bay. If Marshall Graves for LSU plays more than 4 minutes I will be terrified.

quote:

You are absolutely correct about length. Most of MSU blocks are from help defense on perimeter players, versus blocks in post defense. Tillman, who is arguably short for a 5, has a knack for delaying his help on a driving guard until the guard is committed to a lay-up, and then swatting it out of bounds. MSU has a lot less length than last season, but more blocked shots.


I'm mostly worried about just contesting shots, not necessarily blocking them. Mays and Smart go into the lane sometimes and just throw stuff up as to not get blocked. It works out if the team is undisciplined with their blocking/rebounding assignments and allows for many offensive rebounds...however I don't think that will be the case on Friday.
Posted by LSUButt
Lowcountry
Member since Jan 2006
15895 posts
Posted on 3/27/19 at 1:03 pm to
Could not fit LSU's stats in the OP:

LSU Stats
Offensive
PPG: 80.9 (11th nationally)
FG%: 45.9% (70th nationally)
3P%: 32% (289th nationally)
2P%: 53.1% (63rd nationally)
FT%: 75.4 (32nd nationally)
APG: 13.1 (186th nationally)
TOPG: 13 (182nd nationally)
ORPG: 12.3 (3rd nationally)
Offensive Efficiency: 1.095 (25th nationally)

Defensive
PPG: 72.9 (199th nationally)
RPG: 38.9 (23rd nationally)
BPG: 4.4 (49th nationally)
SPG: 8.9 (9th nationally)
Opponent FG% [: 43% (117th nationally)
Opponent 2P%: 49.3% (139th nationally)
Opponent 3P%: 33.5% (120th nationally)
Opponent ORPG: 9.3 (276th nationally)
Opponent FTAPG: 20.1 (238th nationally)
Turnovers Forced: 14.7 (44th nationally)
Defensive Efficiency: .986 (114th nationally)
Posted by UpToPar
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2008
22872 posts
Posted on 3/27/19 at 4:52 pm to
quote:

Only comparison I have for matchups is that your guards are a lot like Purdue's. An elite, short point guard (carson edwards/waters)


I haven't watched a ton of Purdue games, but the little I've seen of them Edwards is pulling up from three A LOT. I don't think he's really comparable to Waters. Waters will shoot the three if left open, but he's at his best when he's driving and facilitating.

I think that's why you see McQuaid able to shut Edwards down with his length on the perimeter, but I think Waters would give him issues with his quickness and ability to penetrate.
first pageprev pagePage 4 of 6Next pagelast page

Back to top
logoFollow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News
Follow us on X, Facebook and Instagram to get the latest updates on LSU Football and Recruiting.

FacebookXInstagram