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re: Pick Six - A Closer Look
Posted on 3/30/10 at 3:13 pm to TigerEggs
Posted on 3/30/10 at 3:13 pm to TigerEggs
quote:Absolutely. If the defender drops the INT, then it would be good luck.
Do you think some bad luck could be attributed to JL's pick 6's?
I know what you are getting at. I think it was him staring down the receivers and getting tunnel vision on his primary receiver. THus the defender not only can break on the ball, but is probably unseen because of the tunnel vision. Okay in high school when defenders aren't as quick and don't recognize plays as soon as they develop, but not in SEC football.
1
Posted on 3/30/10 at 3:13 pm to yeanheard
quote:
JJs first year and he has a 3:1 TD to int. ratio
And our offense was ranked 112th.... what's your point?
Posted on 3/30/10 at 3:14 pm to TigerEggs
JJ was not a consistent ball mover, but he didn't kill us with pick 6s. A shitty o-line and no running game didn't help JJ at all.
This post was edited on 3/30/10 at 3:15 pm
Posted on 3/30/10 at 3:15 pm to alajones
Yea I hear what your saying. I was just trying to help people understand that it might not be as bad as it looks on the surface.
Posted on 3/30/10 at 3:17 pm to alajones
Right. Lets excuse away one kids mistakes but throw the other under the bus.
Our fan base blows. We are not pulling for one kid over another.
Our fan base blows. We are not pulling for one kid over another.
Posted on 3/30/10 at 3:18 pm to alajones
quote:
JJ was not a consistent ball mover, but he didn't kill us with pick 6s. A shitty o-line and no running game didn't help JJ at all.
So if a few of Lee's pick 6's had been run down, and he only had say 4 as opposed to 7, would you be willing to trade a JL who throws a couple of pick six's but can move the ball, has some resemblance of a deep pass, doesn't take 10 sacks a game, etc. For what we saw from JJ?
I think they both have problems but what the coaching staff has to figure out is which is more correctable and can put us in the best position to win
Posted on 3/30/10 at 3:20 pm to TigerEggs
LSU played Alabama in 2009.
JJ went 10-17, 115 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT. he also gained 20 yards on his feet
he got hurt
JLee came in and went 4-10, 45 yards, 0 TD, and 1 INT. he also lost 12 yards on his feet
for me, JLee 2nd chance came in tuscaloosa.
and dont get me wrong, if JLee can come out and play like he has the ability to, im all for it. He seems to have to tools to be a very good QB. i just dont see it happening. I see JJ can be a playmaker. that is all
JJ went 10-17, 115 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT. he also gained 20 yards on his feet
he got hurt
JLee came in and went 4-10, 45 yards, 0 TD, and 1 INT. he also lost 12 yards on his feet
for me, JLee 2nd chance came in tuscaloosa.
and dont get me wrong, if JLee can come out and play like he has the ability to, im all for it. He seems to have to tools to be a very good QB. i just dont see it happening. I see JJ can be a playmaker. that is all
This post was edited on 3/30/10 at 3:22 pm
Posted on 3/30/10 at 3:21 pm to TigerEggs
My opinion on Lee is this:
A lot of his interceptions were like some of you said, him staring down his 1 receiver that he's going to. You can do that in high school, not the SEC.
After watching the spring game, besides the running backs I was thoroughly impressed with Lee. Yeah he had a pick six, but what I really liked was watching him go through his reads / progressions a HELL OF A LOT faster then JJ, and getting the ball to the open receiver.
The biggest play that stands out in my mind was when he checked down 2 WR's and the TE and dumped it off to Ford in the flat... something he could NOT do at all earlier in his career at LSU.
Also JJ looked quite pitiful most of the time during the spring game. Overthrowing the deep ball almost every time, and the look on his face after every poor pass is going to be the new drinking game for me this year when i watch LSU lol.
I know you cant base everything off the spring game, and the coaches know a hell of a lot more then I ever will, but in my OPINION, after watching the spring game, i was more impressed with lee then I was JJ... especially with his pick six and the way he came right out and lead the team down the field.
I feel confident in the fact that if JJ continues to play hesitant and cant get the job done, that Lee can come in and surprise a hell of a lot of people this year.
A lot of his interceptions were like some of you said, him staring down his 1 receiver that he's going to. You can do that in high school, not the SEC.
After watching the spring game, besides the running backs I was thoroughly impressed with Lee. Yeah he had a pick six, but what I really liked was watching him go through his reads / progressions a HELL OF A LOT faster then JJ, and getting the ball to the open receiver.
The biggest play that stands out in my mind was when he checked down 2 WR's and the TE and dumped it off to Ford in the flat... something he could NOT do at all earlier in his career at LSU.
Also JJ looked quite pitiful most of the time during the spring game. Overthrowing the deep ball almost every time, and the look on his face after every poor pass is going to be the new drinking game for me this year when i watch LSU lol.
I know you cant base everything off the spring game, and the coaches know a hell of a lot more then I ever will, but in my OPINION, after watching the spring game, i was more impressed with lee then I was JJ... especially with his pick six and the way he came right out and lead the team down the field.
I feel confident in the fact that if JJ continues to play hesitant and cant get the job done, that Lee can come in and surprise a hell of a lot of people this year.
Posted on 3/30/10 at 3:22 pm to TigerEggs
quote:
quote:
there are the ones where the QB stares down the receiver and allows the defender to jump the hell out of the route and have a full head of steam heading to the endzone
the one against Bama was not only not Lee's fault, but the WR ran a terrible route... It was intercepted near mid field with the entire offense ahead of him... We ultimately gave up on tackling, no offensive player remotely tried to tackle the guy
Posted on 3/30/10 at 3:28 pm to TigerEggs
I'm saying I would rather have a QB that is ample than one that that loses games. If JJ had a decent running game and an o-line, he would have been an ample QB. Lee was throwing pick 6s. Granted, the only game we really lost because of them was Bama. But it was still frustrating.
I didn't see the spring game, so I can't tell you anything about it. JJ didn't seem to progress a whole lot last season. But IMO he would have looked a lot better with a line and a running game. I didn't think he lost any games for us.
I didn't see the spring game, so I can't tell you anything about it. JJ didn't seem to progress a whole lot last season. But IMO he would have looked a lot better with a line and a running game. I didn't think he lost any games for us.
Posted on 3/30/10 at 3:28 pm to RileyTime
quote:
the one against Bama was not only not Lee's fault, but the WR ran a terrible route... It was intercepted near mid field with the entire offense ahead of him... We ultimately gave up on tackling, no offensive player remotely tried to tackle the guy
This is what i'm trying to get at... A majority of the blame for a pick 6 should be on the quarterback, but some blame can be put on other factors.
I think the biggest positive for JL is that he has shown improvement... let's not forget he was only a freshman when he started and if you take a couple of those pick 6's away he would be considered pretty good for a freshman.
While I think it's JJ's job to lose, I think if he doesn't start showing some improvement JL will be starting against UNC
Posted on 3/30/10 at 3:29 pm to RileyTime
I think as he gets comfortable, he completely disregards the level of danger that is present in attempting certain passes. I don't know what to call it, but there are times where he should throw the ball away or take a sack. Instead he tries to force a pass trying to make a play and disaster strikes. He consistently throws his interceptions in the worst possible spot on the field creating an easy path for the defender to the end zone. Also, like a previous poster said, he is extremely inaccurate to the flats and he stares his receivers down worse than I've seen before.
Posted on 3/30/10 at 3:29 pm to RileyTime
quote:I thought that was what I remembered.
It was intercepted near mid field with the entire offense ahead of him... We ultimately gave up on tackling, no offensive player remotely tried to tackle the guy
Posted on 3/30/10 at 3:33 pm to alajones
quote:
JJ didn't seem to progress a whole lot last season. But IMO he would have looked a lot better with a line and a running game.
A running game can make any QB look good (i.e. Bama), do you think if JJ could throw a better deep ball and not get us in so many 3rd and longs with sacks that our running game would have looked better?
Posted on 3/30/10 at 3:35 pm to TigerEggs
With a better o-line, yes I would say he doesn't get us in as many 3rd and long situations. I don't know about the deep ball accuracy stuff.
And I don't think a 3000 yard Bama-esque running game was needed. But we were on our 12th RB or something and or o-line couldn't even push around Tech and ULL. Much less Bama.
And I don't think a 3000 yard Bama-esque running game was needed. But we were on our 12th RB or something and or o-line couldn't even push around Tech and ULL. Much less Bama.
This post was edited on 3/30/10 at 3:37 pm
Posted on 3/30/10 at 3:40 pm to alajones
quote:
With a better o-line, yes I would say he doesn't get us in as many 3rd and long situations
I agree.
But don't forget that he was playing with the first team o-line and a running back that looked pretty good in ridley in the spring game. He still looked confused, frustrated, and unable to make reads. I know it is only the spring game, but it is all we have to go on for now.
At first I did think it was the o-line and running game, but now i am starting to question that based on what I saw in the spring game. There is no doubt it was a factor, but how much....dont know
Posted on 3/30/10 at 3:46 pm to TigerEggs
quote:
lee's accuracy to the flats is terrible, and he over throws or underthrows these players. he cant hit the screen or the dump pass. Additionally, he cant run, so when a play breaks down or he cant find someone, the dump pass is his last options.
you think jefferson is any better, he cant throw screen to anyone's chest, only at the ground. and his long ball has no touch
Posted on 3/30/10 at 3:55 pm to RileyTime
quote:
the one against Bama was not only not Lee's fault, but the WR ran a terrible route.
From what I remember, it was against a corner blitz. The sideline was wide open...but for some reason, Toliver ran a post route into the middle of the field, and right in front of Rashad Johnson. Lee overthrew the route for a pick 6.
The pick is definitely on Lee, but it was such a shitty play call in the first place that there wasn't much else to do with it, other than throwing it away, which would have been grounding unless he somehow managed to escape both blitzing corners.
Posted on 3/30/10 at 3:56 pm to LSUeehaws25
quote:
you think jefferson is any better, he cant throw screen to anyone's chest, only at the ground. and his long ball has no touch
EXACTLY. I think he is just as likely to throw a pick 6 with his inaccuracy , but instead most of the time he just holds the ball until he is sacked. Its not like he is more accurate, makes better reads, etc. he just hesitates and takes a sack instead of trying to force a pass.... It's a tradeoff. Whichever one can be corrected first will be our starting QB
Posted on 3/30/10 at 4:00 pm to TigerEggs
quote:
It's a tradeoff
yeah but losing 6 yards =/= TD opponent
hell, losing 12 yards =/= change of possession
This post was edited on 3/30/10 at 4:00 pm
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