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Posted on 8/30/24 at 7:18 am to im4LSU
quote:
Hardly. Nothing legitimate about switching up how you chose from year to year to manipulate things the way you want them.
Like the way the BCS kept changing its formula every time the teams chosen didn’t produce the results they wanted? Look, my argument has never been that the poll system was a good way to choose champions or that every team chosen by the polls was reasonable. There are many years it got things wrong. Even in this case I believe the AP got it wrong having USC ahead of LSU.
By legitimate I do not mean “right”. By legitimate, I mean how broadly it received public acceptance, which is the only source of validity any national championship selections have ever had in the absence of an NCAA sanctioned championship. In this case, the legitimacy of the AP selection is less about the strength of their selection or selection process and more about the weakness of the BCS selection process. Picking only two teams when there are years like 2003 where more than 2 teams have a valid argument that they might be the best team just does not resolve the debate.
This post was edited on 8/30/24 at 7:19 am
Posted on 8/30/24 at 7:23 am to MikeTheTiger71
For someone wanting acceptance of your thoughts you are one bullheaded person. 
Posted on 8/30/24 at 7:26 am to cbree88
I agree
Posted on 8/30/24 at 7:35 am to themunch
quote:
For someone wanting acceptance of your thoughts you are one bullheaded person.
What exactly is bullheaded about the post you responded to? I acknowledged that the poll system is extremely flawed and quite often hasn’t gotten things right. I agreed the AP was wrong to think USC was more deserving than LSU. None of that is the issue. I’m not defending the system or denigrating LSU.
The issue is that the BCS had plenty of flaws of its own, something even its creator Roy Kramer acknowledged. It was a failed attempt to placate the masses and stave off the creation of a legitimate playoff system. That created limitations in public acceptance of the results that came to a head in 2003. I’m not saying LSU wasn’t legitimate national champions or that they weren’t accepted as such by the public. I’m saying the public wasn’t satisfied that USC was given a fair opportunity and felt the issue wasn’t settled on the field. As such, they also accept the legitimacy of USC’s claim whether we as LSU fans like that or not. I just don’t understand why it bothers people so much. LSU won the title and it has just as much weight and credibility as any other national champion regardless of what the AP and USC did.
This post was edited on 8/30/24 at 7:36 am
Posted on 8/30/24 at 7:53 am to MikeTheTiger71
quote:
I’m saying the public wasn’t satisfied that USC was given a fair opportunity and felt the issue wasn’t settled on the field.
I guess we're going to have to redefine this. By "the public", you mean the AP writers and USC fans. No reasonable football fan outside those 2 small groups believes USC is the "champion" or "co-champion" for 2003. That count is none. Zero. Nada.
It was a Tantrumship. The 2003 AP Tantrumship goes to USC. *golf clap*
Posted on 8/30/24 at 8:16 am to TigerMan327
quote:I agree. They should get rid of all that stuff. Baseball and basketball especially. The AP standings serve no purpose with expanded post seasons.
AP trophy became irrelevant after the BCS was invented and now even more so with the CFP
Posted on 8/30/24 at 8:48 am to cbree88
BCS was created in 1998. the 2004 title game was the sixth BCSNCG. There was also the Bowl Alliance (95-97) and Bowl Coalition (92-94) who had designated national championship games.
That means the criteria for selecting a national champion was designated for over ten years. They can claim a title granted by random sports writers and broadcasters.
That means the criteria for selecting a national champion was designated for over ten years. They can claim a title granted by random sports writers and broadcasters.
Posted on 8/30/24 at 8:55 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
I guess we're going to have to redefine this. By "the public", you mean the AP writers and USC fans. No reasonable football fan outside those 2 small groups believes USC is the "champion" or "co-champion" for 2003. That count is none. Zero. Nada.
You are wrong about that. Most fans outside LSU fans accept the legitimacy of USC’s claims. Look for any list of national champions that’s anything other than just a list of BCS champions and you will find USC list alongside LSU in 2003. If it really were just a narrow group that believed that, there would not be so many LSU fans on here still so passionately fired up about it. It just wouldn’t matter any more 20 years and 2 more LSU national titles later.
Posted on 8/30/24 at 9:36 am to cbree88
LSU 2003 Awarded NCs
A&H, BCS, BR, CM, DeS, DuS, MCFR, NFF, R(FACT), SR, USAT/ESPN, W
USC 2003 Awarded NCs
AP, CCR, ERS, FWAA, MGR, NYT, SN
OU 2003 Awarded NCs
B(QPRS)
Thanks for playing
A&H, BCS, BR, CM, DeS, DuS, MCFR, NFF, R(FACT), SR, USAT/ESPN, W
USC 2003 Awarded NCs
AP, CCR, ERS, FWAA, MGR, NYT, SN
OU 2003 Awarded NCs
B(QPRS)
Thanks for playing
Posted on 8/30/24 at 10:10 am to Mayhawman
quote:
B(QPRS
Don’t be stupid.
This is obviously not a credible or legitimate national championship proclaiming organization in any way.
The AP and Coaches Poll were both considered legitimate national championship declarers at that time before the CFP existed. All these other Mickey Mouse polls are obviously not legitimate.
Can we please have an intelligent discussion here and not just throw out random, irrelevant tidbits of information?
The AP and Coaches Poll were considered the only two legitimate polls at that time.
This post was edited on 8/30/24 at 10:46 am
Posted on 8/30/24 at 10:20 am to MikeTheTiger71
quote:
You are wrong about that. Most fans outside LSU fans accept the legitimacy of USC’s claims. Look for any list of national champions that’s anything other than just a list of BCS champions and you will find USC list alongside LSU in 2003. If it really were just a narrow group that believed that, there would not be so many LSU fans on here still so passionately fired up about it. It just wouldn’t matter any more 20 years and 2 more LSU national titles later.
Correct. LSU fans are the only ones who don’t consider USC’s 2003 title to be legitimate. In fact, most of the country believed that USC was a better team than LSU back in 2003 when all of this happened.
The only reason the coaches poll voted LSU #1 is that they were contractually obligated to vote for us instead of USC. They chose USC #1 at the end of the regular season, but they changed their vote after the postseason because they were required to do so.
Of course we LSU fans are doing revisionist history now and pretending that everyone knew LSU was the best team that year. Group think is a very powerful thing in a lot of negative ways, and it definitely shows up in our fanbase pretty frequently.
This post was edited on 8/30/24 at 10:26 am
Posted on 8/30/24 at 10:57 am to cbree88
quote:Then neither is the opinionated AP and Coaches.
not a credible or legitimate national championship proclaiming organization.
Some of those "illegit" awards are/ were computer based and unbiased, which the most legit, BCS used to dilute bias and eye tests of opinion polls.
Posted on 8/30/24 at 1:10 pm to cbree88
quote:
How many tiger dicks did you suck to convince you to white knight and blindly deny facts? I’m a big LSU fan, but I’m capable of acknowledging facts. LSU and USC are both national champions for 2003. End of story
You’re a fricking loser
Posted on 8/30/24 at 7:00 pm to MikeTheTiger71
LSU handled the #1 team in the country which had the #3 offense, #5 defense, & Heisman winner, but USC was more deserving? Gtfo
Posted on 8/30/24 at 11:03 pm to BigNastyTiger417
quote:
LSU handled the #1 team in the country which had the #3 offense, #5 defense, & Heisman winner, but USC was more deserving? Gtfo
Where did I ever say USC was more deserving or even that that were as deserving? In fact, I’ve said several times that I disagree with the AP poll. This isn’t about my personal feelings or who deserved to be champions. It’s simply acknowledging that the general public accepts USC’s claimed based on the AP poll. Search for any list of national champions that isn’t just a list of BCS winners and you will find both LSU and USC listed, rightly or wrongly. That’s reality. I don’t know why that bothers people so much.
Posted on 8/31/24 at 9:07 pm to MikeTheTiger71
I apologize. Mistake on my part. I misread your post. You stated the AP said USC was more deserving, not you personally.
Posted on 9/1/24 at 12:32 am to BayouCowboy
Actually USC was number one not oklahoma. But nice try.
Posted on 9/1/24 at 1:23 pm to surftimeforsc
Wrong. Final BCS standings through Dec. 6, 2003 (before bowl games):
#1 - Oklahoma (rightfully so)
#2 - LSU ((rightfully so)
#3 - Southern Cal (rightfully so)
LINK
#1 - Oklahoma (rightfully so)
#2 - LSU ((rightfully so)
#3 - Southern Cal (rightfully so)
LINK
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