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re: OSU LHP Heimlich: “(his) explanation ... incomplete from legal standpoint”

Posted on 5/31/18 at 11:23 am to
Posted by LSUcajun77
New Orleans
Member since Nov 2008
23912 posts
Posted on 5/31/18 at 11:23 am to
quote:

My guess is they had a pretty damn good case against him


How could it be a good case? There was no evidence except a child’s word. Unless I missed something, there was no signs of physical abuse or recordings of the said crime.
It was a child’s word vs his in court. A jury would never let the words out the child’s mouth go to a not guilty verdict.
He accepted the deal the day before she was suppose to take the stand.
Whether he did it or not the guilty plea was the option of staying out of jail.
This post was edited on 5/31/18 at 11:26 am
Posted by Erin Go Bragh
Beyond the Pale
Member since Dec 2007
14918 posts
Posted on 5/31/18 at 11:24 am to
quote:

If you aren't familiar with the word,

First of all, it would serve you well not to be a condescending arse.

Secondly, we've had men offered contracts with weapons charges, domestic battery charges, vehicular manslaughter charges and other felonies on their records.

All it takes is one GM willing to give Heimlich a chance. That is not an unprecedented occurrence.
Posted by lsupride87
Member since Dec 2007
108485 posts
Posted on 5/31/18 at 11:25 am to
quote:

How could it be a good case? There was no evidence except a child’s word. Unless I missed something, there was no signs of physical abuse or recordings of the said crime.
It was a child’s word vs his in court. A jury would never let the words out the child’s mouth go to a not guilty verdict.
He accepted the deal the day before she was suppose to take the stand.

This is correct. When the further details came out, I am 50/50 on whether he did it or not
Posted by LSUcajun77
New Orleans
Member since Nov 2008
23912 posts
Posted on 5/31/18 at 11:26 am to
That’s where I am. The more I research the case I’m standing at 50/50.
Posted by LSUintheNW
At your mom’s house
Member since Aug 2009
36800 posts
Posted on 5/31/18 at 11:29 am to
quote:

I am 50/50 on whether he did it or not


:don't believe you:
Posted by ProjectP2294
South St. Louis city
Member since May 2007
75886 posts
Posted on 5/31/18 at 11:29 am to
quote:

All it takes is one GM willing to give Heimlich a chance.


Okay, cool. So we have a hypothetical GM willing to take the chance, and he convinces ownership to take the chance. Why on God's green earth would they give him a million fricking dollars when literally no one else is looking to draft the kid?

Regardless of the red flag, the vast majority of drafted college seniors don't get more than $50k to sign, and it's rare the bonus is even that high.

So add in the red flag and why would anyone give him $1MM+?

You specifically said he would be a millionaire in a few weeks. Now you're saying someone will give him a chance.

And you keep bringing up crimes that, from a public perception standpoint, pale in comparison.

Just admit you talked out of your arse.
Posted by the LSUSaint
Member since Nov 2009
15444 posts
Posted on 5/31/18 at 11:29 am to
quote:

His reasoning about not missing a year of baseball is bullshite.
I hate being judgmental without the facts, but it seems pretty odd that baseball was more important than sticking to being not guilty of such a despicable crime. Makes me lean toward he was guilty.


I can tell you this as fact, and I'm sure you know...fighting allegations like this is bankrupting type expensive. I am close with an attorney that specializes in sex offenses, and the fee for this would start well in excess of 50k for representation. I'd say closer to $100k easily.
So at some point many many family's have to decide if it's worth spending the money with ZERO assurances he would be found innocent or guilty of less serious offenses not being offered in the plea.
So, keep all your family money, keep out of the news, and agree to a lesser offense and only have to register as an offender? Most say yes, and it becomes no big deal for a while, since your neighbors already likely know what's been going on anyway.
Most 15 yr old kids have unfinished development in a part of the brain that basically controls a lot of the decision making and consequences. It varies from person to person as to when the development is completed. I've watched it argued repeatedly in trials of young kids or teenagers.
It's a horrible terrible thing that occurred, and was done by a 15 yr old dumbass overly hormonal teen boy.
But the legal system was and is in control and has administered its punishment. So I cannot fully wrap my head around the fact the young man shouldn't be allowed to be a professional at anything he is good at including baseball. Hes endured as much public disgrace as any.
Posted by lsupride87
Member since Dec 2007
108485 posts
Posted on 5/31/18 at 11:30 am to
quote:

So at some point many many family's have to decide if it's worth spending the money with ZERO assurances
In this specific case, his attorney actually assured them that he had little chance to win since it would be his word vs the girls
This post was edited on 5/31/18 at 11:31 am
Posted by lsupride87
Member since Dec 2007
108485 posts
Posted on 5/31/18 at 11:32 am to
quote:

:don't believe you:
Posted by Albeaver
Member since Aug 2004
338 posts
Posted on 5/31/18 at 11:33 am to
If you want more on this story- here is an actual investigative journalist article.

LINK
Posted by Erin Go Bragh
Beyond the Pale
Member since Dec 2007
14918 posts
Posted on 5/31/18 at 11:33 am to
quote:


You specifically said he would be a millionaire in a few weeks.

If you want to resort to specifics I said it was "likely" he would be a millionaire. I'm basing that on what we have witnessed in the past from teams willing to take a chance on troubled individuals with potential.

quote:

Just admit you talked out of your arse

You may well be an idiot. Another observation based on history.
Posted by LSUcajun77
New Orleans
Member since Nov 2008
23912 posts
Posted on 5/31/18 at 11:34 am to
quote:

So, keep all your family money, keep out of the news, and agree to a lesser offense and only have to register as an offender? Most say yes, and it becomes no big deal for a while, since your neighbors already likely know what's been going on anyway


Agree.

You really don’t know until you’re put in a situation fighting for your life.
I really wish there was more evidence because I really want to hate this guy, but if I’m being honest I don’t see it, yet.
It’s a disgusting story, but it’s not the first I’ve heard it, and later to find out the person was innocent the whole time.
His reasoning seems odd, but maybe he couldn’t be completely honest. I see he’s talking a lot more now and that’s because 1. His probation is up and 2. It’s in the open now. Maybe more facts will come out eventually.
Posted by OSUgrad04
Member since May 2018
5 posts
Posted on 5/31/18 at 11:40 am to
Maybe he did do it, maybe not. There is a lot more to this story. I can tell you that he has maintained his innocence the whole time. His lawyer advised him to plead guilty. He has passed several lie detector tests.
Posted by ProjectP2294
South St. Louis city
Member since May 2007
75886 posts
Posted on 5/31/18 at 11:40 am to
quote:

You may well be an idiot.


Maybe about some things, but not about this topic.

I know more about the draft than you do. I'm not basing what I'm saying on some nebulous idea of unnamed teams from unnamed leagues willing to take a chance on less socially taboo crimes. I'm basing what I'm saying specifically on baseball, the MLB draft, and specific issues team would face if they drafted him.

I've never said he absolutely won't get drafted, but it's dumb to think that a team will both take the PR hit and pay a ton of money for it at the same time. Especially when they don't have to.
Posted by Alt26
Member since Mar 2010
34117 posts
Posted on 5/31/18 at 11:45 am to
First off, I don't know if this guy did or did not do what he was accused off. We do know however that he pled guilty, so under the criminal justice system he is, in fact, guilty.

That said, I think he has consistently maintained that he did not do what he was accused of. From a practical standpoint, it doesn't appear there was going to be any physical evidence confirming or negating that he did what he was accused of. It appears the trial was largely going to depend on the credibility of the witnesses -- i.e. him saying he did not do it vs. the child (and her mother who is/was Heimlich's ex-sister in law) saying he did.

I suspect his lawyer advised him (and rightfully so) that even if he did not do it, it was going to come down to who the jury believed and juries tend to sympathize with and give more credibility to the child in these types of cases. Also, it's incredibly difficult to cross-examine a child and not come across as horribly unlikable to the jury.

The risk/decision he had to look at was that even if he absolutely did not do it, he still would be fighting an uphill battle at trial because juries are more apt to believe children, and if he lost, he would be facing a significant penalty. Or, he accepts a much lesser penalty by pleading guilty, even if he did not do it.

It's human nature to adamantly defend yourself if you know you have not done anything wrong. But it's very possible that even if innocent, the odds were not good that 12 jurors he doesn't know would believe him. Thus, despite his innocence, he felt he it was better to take the lesser of two "no-win" choices.

I think as part of his sentencing he was required to attend professional counseling and all psychiatric reports over the years of counseling indicated he was not a threat to children. I think the psychiatrist also almost went so far as to say he/she believed that Heimlich did not do it, and that he only accepted the guilty plea because he felt he had no realistic other choice and he wanted to avoid putting his family through what would be a public legal proceeding.

The author of the linked article says:

quote:

That being said, Heimlich did plead guilty. As a matter of law, he’s guilty.



I 100% agree with that. But, I disagree with this...

quote:

because if he pleaded guilty based on the evidence against him, that means he (or his lawyer) believed the state had overwhelming evidence that he committed the crime, or at least enough evidence to make a guilty verdict probable.


It very well could have been that his lawyer advised him that there was better chance the jury would believe the child over him because of the natural sympathy factor and he had to weigh that risk in his decision.

I think the author's of the article's next statement is a bit misleading...

quote:

So this is not, contrary to how some have portrayed it, a “he said, she said” debate any longer.


In a since he's right because this matter has been adjudicated. However, the author did not reference any physical evidence to go along with the testimonial evidence. So in a practical sense whether or not he actually did it (not legally did it) is still subject to debate and it is still a "he said/she said" debate

Again, I don't know these people; I haven't seen the evidence in full; so I don't know if he actually did or did not do it. I just think it's an interesting case to look at from all angles.
This post was edited on 5/31/18 at 11:48 am
Posted by LSUcajun77
New Orleans
Member since Nov 2008
23912 posts
Posted on 5/31/18 at 11:47 am to
+1
Posted by LSUintheNW
At your mom’s house
Member since Aug 2009
36800 posts
Posted on 5/31/18 at 11:47 am to
Many of us have read it.

Hope the juice was worth the squeeze for selling your soul.
Posted by Jay Quest
Once removed from Massachusetts
Member since Nov 2009
10686 posts
Posted on 5/31/18 at 11:48 am to
Heimlich will be drafted. Where he falls in the draft depends on how much heat a GM feels will accompany the selection.

A west coast team might pull the trigger and take him relatively high, Seattle or San Fran perhaps but someone is taking him in this draft.
Posted by LSUintheNW
At your mom’s house
Member since Aug 2009
36800 posts
Posted on 5/31/18 at 11:50 am to
quote:

He has passed several lie detector tests.




Which means nothing in court.

Posted by lsuhunt555
Teakwood Village Breh
Member since Nov 2008
38974 posts
Posted on 5/31/18 at 11:52 am to
Is he expected to pitch this weekend?
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