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re: Official QB Thread...(do not start a new thread to discuss QB's)
Posted on 9/15/10 at 9:57 pm to grif82
Posted on 9/15/10 at 9:57 pm to grif82
quote:Is that what this discussion has come to?
I wouldn't call stats "facts", just me. One can argue that they don't give us the full picture.
Stats are not facts? Really?!?!
I guess when the facts don't support your argument, it would be convenient if the facts disappeared.
2
Posted on 9/15/10 at 10:00 pm to BT
quote:
JJ has a much lower ceiling and and much lower floor.
You might be possibly right on the ceiling part, but I don't know about the floor. We've been in the danger zone of possibly losing to a couple of supposed non-conference cupcakes at home with JL starting, but we've never really had that issue with JJ.
Posted on 9/15/10 at 10:05 pm to just me
quote:
Stats are not facts? Really?!?!
You're taking what I said out of context. Yes, stats are indeed "facts". Although, sometimes they don't paint a complete picture and can be a bit misleading. An example would be that while Jefferson has a high completion rating last year, the passing offense was still abysmal and ranked 109th in the nation.
quote:
I guess when the facts don't support your argument, it would be convenient if the facts disappeared.
Sure, whatever you say, bruh!
Posted on 9/15/10 at 10:06 pm to just me
Just for the record, I'm not saying that Lee is not talented. I'm not saying that Lee shouldn't play. I'm not even saying that Jefferson is better than Lee.
I have always said that Lee should play at least one possession every game. I have always said that Lee's behavior is commendable. I'm glad Lee stayed and has worked hard to earn a starting position. I believe that LSU will need Lee to win a championship.
If Miles starts Lee against Mississippi State, I will wholeheartedly and enthusiastically support that decision. I believe that Miles is in a position to determine who should start. He sees both QBs practice every day.
All I am saying is that the known facts and the informed opinions tend to suggest that Jefferson is better than Lee.
The opinion that Lee is a better passer or bigger deep threat or more likely to keep opposing defenses out of the box is unsupported speculation.
I have always said that Lee should play at least one possession every game. I have always said that Lee's behavior is commendable. I'm glad Lee stayed and has worked hard to earn a starting position. I believe that LSU will need Lee to win a championship.
If Miles starts Lee against Mississippi State, I will wholeheartedly and enthusiastically support that decision. I believe that Miles is in a position to determine who should start. He sees both QBs practice every day.
All I am saying is that the known facts and the informed opinions tend to suggest that Jefferson is better than Lee.
The opinion that Lee is a better passer or bigger deep threat or more likely to keep opposing defenses out of the box is unsupported speculation.
Posted on 9/15/10 at 10:32 pm to just me
You dont use facts, you spin
How many ints and fumbles has he had in just two games?
Then you proceeded to use stats for JLee from two partial games, one on the road, and another that was his 1st game of the yr. All the while dismissing JJs 2nd start, on the road
Learning, still? Jr QBs are all learning. Theres never been one better than JJ. And thats a fact to you? Or just your poor opinion?
So the fact that in the 12 games where JLee has multiple throws, hes had 10 completions of 35+ yds in 7 of those games (58%), or .83 per game. Whereas, JJ in 18 games, has thrown 12 completions of 35+ yds in 9 games (50%), or .67 per game = stretching the field better than JLee. OK, yeah, right?
And their starting field position was.... thank you, PP.
So 274 yds against LaTech in '07 is not much to you?
Your facts are sketchy, at best
quote:
Jefferson is not a turnover problem.
How many ints and fumbles has he had in just two games?
quote:
Jefferson had a 40% completion rate against Vandy. That's pretty damn bad. However, it's also his worst game; it the second game of the season, and it was on the road.
Lee 8/20 (40%) 99 5.0 1 1 [2008 Tulane (Home)]
Lee 13/34 (38%) 181 5.3 1 4 [2008 Alabama (Home)]
Lee 4/12 (33%) 49 4.1 0 1 [2008 Ole Miss (Home)]
Lee 7/22 (32%) 105 4.8 1 0 [2009 La Tech (Home)]
Lee 4/10 (40%) 44 4.4 0 1 [2009 Alabama]
Then you proceeded to use stats for JLee from two partial games, one on the road, and another that was his 1st game of the yr. All the while dismissing JJs 2nd start, on the road
quote:
he was only a very young sophomore. He's learning.
Learning, still? Jr QBs are all learning. Theres never been one better than JJ. And thats a fact to you? Or just your poor opinion?
quote:
Jefferson can stretch the field vertically, and the facts tend to suggest that Jefferson can stretch the field vertically better than Lee
So the fact that in the 12 games where JLee has multiple throws, hes had 10 completions of 35+ yds in 7 of those games (58%), or .83 per game. Whereas, JJ in 18 games, has thrown 12 completions of 35+ yds in 9 games (50%), or .67 per game = stretching the field better than JLee. OK, yeah, right?
quote:
JJ threw two TD passes in week 1. RS ran for another TD.
And their starting field position was.... thank you, PP.
quote:
LSU rushed for 150 yards in the fourth quarter of the Vandy game to finish with 280 yards, the most since a 321-yard effort against La Tech in 2007. When you can run that much, you don't need to pass much.
So 274 yds against LaTech in '07 is not much to you?
Your facts are sketchy, at best
Posted on 9/15/10 at 10:53 pm to just me
quote:
Just for the record, I'm not saying that Lee is not talented. I'm not saying that Lee shouldn't play. I'm not even saying that Jefferson is better than Lee.
I have always said that Lee should play at least one possession every game. I have always said that Lee's behavior is commendable. I'm glad Lee stayed and has worked hard to earn a starting position. I believe that LSU will need Lee to win a championship.
If Miles starts Lee against Mississippi State, I will wholeheartedly and enthusiastically support that decision. I believe that Miles is in a position to determine who should start. He sees both QBs practice every day.
All I am saying is that the known facts and the informed opinions tend to suggest that Jefferson is better than Lee.
The opinion that Lee is a better passer or bigger deep threat or more likely to keep opposing defenses out of the box is unsupported speculation.
Posted on 9/15/10 at 11:03 pm to just me
quote:
Attempting to use NCAA rankings after two games to justify your argument is beyond ignorant
Attempting to use completion percentage as the measure of a good game for a QB is equally ignorant. Completing a bunch of short passes and taking a bunch of sacks because you can't pull the trigger on throwing a pass when there is no receiver that is running wide open is a poor formula for a successful offense.
Having very little feel for game situations is not a good trait for a QB. I have never seen an SEC QB try to clock a ball when only one second was on the clock until last season...the very next week against Arkansas, he got very lucky twice when backs miraculously got out of bounds after he threw underneath to them with no timeouts and very little time on the clock. I believe in the Ole Miss game he took more than 20 seconds to call for the snap as the clock was winding down (before the ridiculous clock attempt).
QBs must have an internal clock and an understanding of the flow of the game...JJ is severely lacking in this department IMHO.
This post was edited on 9/15/10 at 11:10 pm
Posted on 9/16/10 at 12:12 am to just me
quote:Pretty much my sentiments to a word.
Just for the record, I'm not saying that Lee is not talented. I'm not saying that Lee shouldn't play. I'm not even saying that Jefferson is better than Lee.
I have always said that Lee should play at least one possession every game. I have always said that Lee's behavior is commendable. I'm glad Lee stayed and has worked hard to earn a starting position. I believe that LSU will need Lee to win a championship.
If Miles starts Lee against Mississippi State, I will wholeheartedly and enthusiastically support that decision. I believe that Miles is in a position to determine who should start. He sees both QBs practice every day.
All I am saying is that the known facts and the informed opinions tend to suggest that Jefferson is better than Lee.
The opinion that Lee is a better passer or bigger deep threat or more likely to keep opposing defenses out of the box is unsupported speculation.
If you are not an "OMG LEE SHOULD START REGARDLESS OF ALL ELSE", then you are a JJ defender and a Lee hater.
Posted on 9/16/10 at 12:24 am to RobbBobb
quote:I await your analysis with bated breath. I humbly seek to learn at the feet of the master.
You dont use facts, you spin
quote:For his first two games of the year, both against BCS opponents on the road, Jefferson has had a total of two turnovers. One interception per game.quote:How many ints and fumbles has he had in just two games?
Jefferson is not a turnover problem.
quote:First, I have never dismissed Jefferson's Vandy game. I have repeatedly called it "horrible" or "pretty damn bad" or some similar pejorative term. I would never disregard the facts.
Then you proceeded to use stats for JLee from two partial games, one on the road, and another that was his 1st game of the yr. All the while dismissing JJs 2nd start, on the road
Second, why don't you tell me which Lee games you want us to ignore. Which facts do you want to disregard?
quote:My poor opinion? Look at what I stated: I stated two facts. First, he was only a very young sophomore in 2009. Second, he is learning. Both of those two statements are facts. I never came remotely close to saying that there's never been one better than Jefferson. That's your statement.quote:Learning, still? Jr QBs are all learning. Theres never been one better than JJ. And thats a fact to you? Or just your poor opinion?
he was only a very young sophomore. He's learning.
quote:I gotta tell you. I am not familiar with the 35+ yard pass per game stat. I try to follow stats pretty closely but I cannot find this stat; thus, I cannot verify your assertion. However, assuming it to be true, it should be noted that Lee often trailed in his games forcing LSU to throw more.
So the fact that in the 12 games where JLee has multiple throws, hes had 10 completions of 35+ yds in 7 of those games (58%), or .83 per game. Whereas, JJ in 18 games, has thrown 12 completions of 35+ yds in 9 games (50%), or .67 per game = stretching the field better than JLee. OK, yeah, right?
quote:Yes, PP had great returns. Of course, it also limited the number of yards that the offense can gain. I suppose you want us to ignore the fact that the UNC touchdowns occurred?quote:And their starting field position was.... thank you, PP.
JJ threw two TD passes in week 1. RS ran for another TD.
quote:I don't even know what the hell you are trying to say. It's probably got something to do with the fact that you don't know what the hell you are trying to say either.quote:So 274 yds against LaTech in '07 is not much to you?
LSU rushed for 150 yards in the fourth quarter of the Vandy game to finish with 280 yards, the most since a 321-yard effort against La Tech in 2007. When you can run that much, you don't need to pass much.
Posted on 9/16/10 at 12:32 am to Housplants
quote:Is that why every analyst in the world uses it? Would you like to use TD to Int. ratio? Perhaps QB rating?
Attempting to use completion percentage as the measure of a good game for a QB is equally ignorant.
You understand that NCAA rankings after two games is no way an apples to apples comparison of the persons involved. It's complete garbage. You do understand that, right?
Posted on 9/16/10 at 12:41 am to shamutiger
quote:
I just don't know if Jarrett"Pick 6" Lee is a good choice; he might be a better choice as far as leading the team down the field. However, if Crowton plays it tight, he will not allow either QB down the field and no points are better than allowing the other team to score 6!
If I'm Jarrett Lee and I've personally gone through LSU's 2008 offensive horrors and become tentative and nervous after struggling under our offensive coordinator's "tutelage" -- then I sit on the sidelines for a year and witness my replacement go through LSU's 2009 offensive horrors and become tentative and nervous after struggling under our offensive coordinator's "mentoring" -- then witness the same thing happening again for a 3rd straight year under our offensive coordinator's "guidance"......
When I get in the game, I feed off the fan support that I'm now receiving. I feel like I let everybody down in 2008. We were one of the worst offensive teams in the nation last year. We're heading that way again this year if something doesn't drastically change. Our offensive coordinator "guru" can't fix it, I'm gonna damn well try! Got nothing to lose. No more of this shite! WE ARE LSU!
I get in the huddle with my three 5-star receivers looking at me and I say "Y'all mutha frickers ready to play some Can't see me?"!
This post was edited on 9/16/10 at 12:42 am
Posted on 9/16/10 at 12:49 am to just me
quote:
Is that why every analyst in the world uses it? Would you like to use TD to Int. ratio? Perhaps QB rating?
any analyst that uses that stat as their sole measure should not be an analyst...
quote:
You understand that NCAA rankings after two games is no way an apples to apples comparison of the persons involved. It's complete garbage. You do understand that, right
I said nothing about NCAA rankings...obviously some teams are playing cupcakes, and others are playing tough teams. Since you are so fond of quoting Lee's history, I will say that our offensive ranking last year was very "offensive", in spite of JJ's very high completion percentage. We ran fewer plays and had fewer 1st downs than any LSU team I have ever watched, and it wasn't close. Pretty good evidence that completion percentage can be misleading, no? While this is a different year, our passing game is still as stagnant as last season.
I noticed that you ignored my comments regarding JJ's feel for game-flow. I would love to hear your insightful retort.
This post was edited on 9/16/10 at 1:02 am
Posted on 9/16/10 at 1:12 am to Housplants
quote:Yes. You did. You said that it is equal to using completion percentage:
I said nothing about NCAA rankings.
quote:quote:Attempting to use completion percentage as the measure of a good game for a QB is equally ignorant.
Attempting to use NCAA rankings after two games to justify your argument is beyond ignorant
quote:
I noticed that you ignored my comments regarding JJ's feel for game-flow. I would love to hear your insightful retort.
Let me try to explain this one more time.
I am not here to defend JJ. I'm not yearning for JJ to start over Lee. I don't have an agenda.
I honestly don't care who starts. I hope they both play well.
Posted on 9/16/10 at 1:24 am to just me
quote:
I said nothing about NCAA rankings. Yes. You did. You said that it is equal to using completion percentage
No, I did not. You called someone out for using NCAA rankings as a measure, and I said the measure you like best is also a poor one.
I happen to agree that NCAA rankings compare apples to oranges.
I too hope that both QBs play well, but I have watched JJ for 16 straight and have seen no evidence that he will ever be a good QB in the SEC. I do not know if JL can be a good SEC QB because he has not gotten very few meaningful snaps since his Freshman year.
He was thrown into the Bama game last year without playing any all season, and then he played the L. Tech game after being heartily booed by his home fans...pretty tough circumstances for anyone.
He needs to get meaningful snaps early in the next few games to find out what kind of player he can be. If he can't supplant JJ, then we need to try a different QB until we find someone that can actually make our offense go.
Again, you have failed to assess his feel-for-the-game/intangibles issues.
Posted on 9/16/10 at 5:19 am to Housplants
Jefferson is not looking like the answer for QB
we don't know if Lee is though
we don't know if Lee is though
Posted on 9/16/10 at 6:08 am to TheDoc
I have been experiencing a sense of deju vu reading this thread. Then I remembered why:
Sound Familiar?
We are having basically the same discussion about JJ's ability as we were having this time last year. And xx games later, after a full season, and full off-season getting all the reps as the #1 guy, he is performing exactly like he was then. Just read some of the comments from that thread. And note, that a year ago, I was sitting in the front seat of the Free Lee bandwagon. I have no idea how he will perform, but I have a really good idea by now how JJ is going to perform.
Sound Familiar?
We are having basically the same discussion about JJ's ability as we were having this time last year. And xx games later, after a full season, and full off-season getting all the reps as the #1 guy, he is performing exactly like he was then. Just read some of the comments from that thread. And note, that a year ago, I was sitting in the front seat of the Free Lee bandwagon. I have no idea how he will perform, but I have a really good idea by now how JJ is going to perform.
Posted on 9/16/10 at 6:39 am to Roaad
From the SI/AP article on the subject:
More like short, to the side, too high, etc, etc.
Falling Short
quote:
"I had plenty of opportunities to complete passes and they just fell short on me," Jefferson said of the Vanderbilt game. "A person that doesn't know football could tell I didn't play good and I know I didn't play good. I know what I need to do."
More like short, to the side, too high, etc, etc.
Falling Short
Posted on 9/16/10 at 6:50 am to just me
quote:Lee wasnt a very young freshman in 08?
First, he was only a very young sophomore in 2009. Second, he is learning.
One thing is for certain, NO KID needs to be booed
This post was edited on 9/16/10 at 6:55 am
Posted on 9/16/10 at 7:03 am to thanksjhester
quote:
KID needs to be booed
Posted on 9/16/10 at 7:10 am to Sammobile
What the hells so funny Sam? They are all Kids to me. Im old
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