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re: Offensive Line vs Scheme. NE vs KC - perfect explanation why LSU's scheme needs to change

Posted on 1/19/19 at 9:09 pm to
Posted by TigerLunatik
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Jan 2005
93803 posts
Posted on 1/19/19 at 9:09 pm to
It's never gonna be just one thing or the other. The line and the scheme need to improve and I'm hopeful that Ensminger is more trusting of his players and himself to open it up some. If not, he and Coach O or going to to really start to feel the heat from fans. We'll see what happens with the coaching staff, but I'm still being pleased with a top 10 finish. I've been avoiding football talk on purpose because it seems you can't have anything positive to say without being biased or criticize anything without being a hater these days.
Posted by nola000
Lacombe, LA
Member since Dec 2014
13139 posts
Posted on 1/19/19 at 9:16 pm to
Excellent, phenomenal post.
Posted by Fast Times @ LSU
Camas
Member since Jan 2005
1325 posts
Posted on 1/19/19 at 9:18 pm to
quote:

Downvoted because of jet sweep


I wasn't a big fan of that being the staple of our running game in 2017.
That said, the Saints used it effectively with Kamara.
If we ran it once or twice a game or even every other game, it can be effective.
it loses its effectiveness as a replacement for your dive or off tackle run.
Posted by des4271
Member since Oct 2014
4032 posts
Posted on 1/19/19 at 9:18 pm to
The Patriots are one of the best at isolating/creating mismatches that there is. The play you illustrated can be run by LSU with Pettigrew, that guy should be a nightmare matchup next year. There definitely is lots of room for improvement (in scheme, execution, playcalling and player development), guess we will find out next season.
Posted by bencoleman
RIP 7/19
Member since Feb 2009
37887 posts
Posted on 1/19/19 at 9:20 pm to
quote:

The Clemson team that just beat the frick out of Alabama did it with an offensive line that had essentially the same number of recruiting Stars and experience as LSU's offensive line did this year. Oh, and they also did it with a freshman quarterback.

It's scheme.

It's always been scheme.

It will always be scheme



The Clemson line had mostly upperclassmen that had been in the system. LSU had one senior battling injury most of the year. One junior. A converted guard playing left tackle. Deculus a sophomore that was in no way shape or form ready to play at this level.

Those two offensive lines were not even close to the same.
Posted by SEC Grapevine
SEC
Member since Sep 2014
502 posts
Posted on 1/19/19 at 9:21 pm to
Clemson and ALA are getting stronger:

CBTN: Coaching by the Numbers is like an audit of the entire program and measures strengths & improvement over 5 yrs as compared to their Conference Average. FWIW these 2 programs are dominating and still improving, especially Clemson. If I were an AD/HC/OC/President I would want to know this information. Lane Kiffin paid for this analysis in 2017 for FAU.












Note: The following were after the Reg Season SECCG

Exactly how do you propose to go from the Bottom to the Top in the Passing Game?


Posted by bencoleman
RIP 7/19
Member since Feb 2009
37887 posts
Posted on 1/19/19 at 9:24 pm to
quote:

He's doing all of us fans a service by combating your PR bullshite. He's a True Tiger fan not a Joe & O Show fan like you




Hey football genius.


Trevor Lawrence was sacked 11 times last year

Burrow was sacked 34 times.


Now you still want to say that LSU'S offensive line was just as good as Clemson's
Posted by TigerLunatik
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Jan 2005
93803 posts
Posted on 1/19/19 at 9:28 pm to
Not a fair comparison IMO, Ben. Lawrence played vs much worse defenses and the entire premise of the Lawrence comparison is that he gets rid of the ball faster in their offensive scheme.
Posted by broadcaster
Maurepas
Member since Sep 2013
2685 posts
Posted on 1/19/19 at 9:30 pm to
It’s retarded to even try to compare LSU offense to two of the best teams in the NFL offense. That’s not how it works!
Posted by bencoleman
RIP 7/19
Member since Feb 2009
37887 posts
Posted on 1/19/19 at 9:33 pm to
quote:

Not a fair comparison IMO, Ben. Lawrence played vs much worse defenses and the entire premise of the Lawrence comparison is that he gets rid of the ball faster in their offensive scheme



While he does get rid of the ball quickly. Usually under 3 seconds. Joe Burrow rarely had 3 seconds to get rid of the ball. Against bama there wasn't much time at all. The offensive line was getting pushed into the backfield.
Posted by SEC Grapevine
SEC
Member since Sep 2014
502 posts
Posted on 1/19/19 at 9:35 pm to



The game has been pushed forward and Saban's recruiting advantage did not trump Dabo, Eliot, and Venables Coaching/Scheme.

For years now teams have faced off against Alabama and tried to find ways run the ball against them with VERY few successes. Clemson has shown little interest in trying to out muscle the Tide but instead they have spread the field with 4 WRs. Dabo is an Offensive WR player/Coach and for a decade he has built a system to attract WRs & QBs.



When an offense has four elite receivers spread out wide, athletes that can’t be covered 1-on-1, the D is outnumbered. With spread sets and motioning Hunter Renfrow around, Trevor Lawrence could get a good look at how Alabama was playing the matchups from snap to snap and throw to targets in 1-on-1. With the level of skill that Lawrence and receivers like 6'4" Justyn Ross, 6'5" Tee Higgins, Amari Rogers, & Renfrow possess, there’s not really any answer, especially with Etienne as the Run Option.

When your offense has so many option, you are going to end up scoring lots of points and then it’s on the other team’s offense to match. If they are not efficient in the redzone your defense has less and less space to worry about while applying pressure and numbers to stop their run.

You could have Saban's recruits and he would still beat you. You recruit potential, just a bunch of random talent who have to sold on a system and developed. Mett and Burrow were transfers which should tell you the same in-house deficiencies exist.




Fisher turned A&M around in year 1 as did Mullen at Florida.





You have no Plan or Strategy or means to implement it. O&E have not put up one point vs Saban and are 0-6 vs Saban, Mullen, & Fisher.

More Time, just give them more time...to implement what? Top recruits go where they know they will be mentored.
Saban, Dabo, Fisher, and Dabo run the types of programs

Like Travis Etienne; he did not want to overused and worn out like Fournette who was never the same after the two helmet-to-helmet hits he took from Landon Collins and Reuben Foster in 2014.

The NFL Rams hired Offensive genius Sean McVay and he went from last to first in Off Scoring in his first year, using the same Scheme as Clemson. AZ just hired Kingsbury for what he was able to do with the Chiefs QB Mahomes.

College style offenses – which feature multi-receiver sets, an emphasis on spacing the field, switch releases to attack man-coverage (receivers crisscrossing at the line of scrimmage), spread formations, and all manner of pre-snap deception – make the game easier for quarterbacks. There’s no other way to say it. It’s how schools routinely chuck out 4,000-yard passers, regardless of the individual player’s talent.

RPOs the FBS & NFL's favorite play demands an O-Line that can run block and pass block with the QB having to decide to Pass or Run or a short pass-run. All that has to happen before the QB can be sacked or OL gets more than 3 yds past the LOS (FBS) or 1 yd (NFL).

Bright Offensive Minds: An Offensive Mastermind to work with a Franchise QB.

There’s skepticism that there’s a surplus of bright offensive minds:

The reason for this is simple: NFL teams did not prepare well enough for this era of wide-open offense. There are simply not enough assistants well-versed in the spread offense and innovative schemes who are ready to be head coaches right now. The vast majority of teams didn’t care about innovative college schemes until recently, and most assistant coaches are holdovers from a more conservative era.


O&E are missing modern Offensive Minds - Better Hire one along with a QB/WR Coach to get out of Max Protect and get the ball out in 2 seconds.
Posted by TigerLunatik
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Jan 2005
93803 posts
Posted on 1/19/19 at 9:43 pm to
quote:

O&E are missing modern Offensive Minds - Better Hire one along with a QB/WR Coach to get out of Max Protect and get the ball out in 2 seconds.

I'm really hopeful this the route that is taken as well although I'm not convinced it will happen. It would be nice to see somewhat of a hybrid of what E was doing and something that forces the defense to defend the entire foeld vertically and horizontally. More misdirection and changing of the launch point would be helpful I think to add into what is already in place.
Posted by SEC Grapevine
SEC
Member since Sep 2014
502 posts
Posted on 1/19/19 at 9:49 pm to

NFL/FBS: Defense Wins Championships: Fact or Folklore....Folklore

The high scoring 2018 season certainly falls outside of the "defense wins championship" boundaries both in the regular season and in the playoffs. The four teams heading into the AFC and NFC Championship games (Chiefs, Rams, Saints, Patriots) rank 1 through 4 in scoring offense. Only the Patriots rank in the top 10 in defense at No. 4. The Saints are at 14 while the Rams and Chiefs are at 20 and 24.

The mantra this season is more akin to "defense gets you into the playoffs but no farther." Among the teams ousted from the players so far, the Bears ranked first in defense, the Ravens second, Texans fifth, Cowboys sixth, Chargers eighth and Seahawks 11th while none of their offenses cracked the top 10 other than the Chargers (eighth). In the divisional round, in three of the four games, the winner scored more than 30 points, so that maybe the mantra needs to be adjusted to "offense matters a lot in the NFL."


All 4 of the Playoff Teams: Offensive Schemes












38-39 yrs old in the pic
Stabler and Joe Namath were the last of the carousin' quarterbacks. Stay out all night, then come in the next day and throw four touchdown passes.
He would come in with little or no sleep and say "It is only a 3 hr game." He died in 2015 at age 70 of colon cancer and CTE. He was devastated to see many of his football friends suffer early deaths from CTE: 110 of 111 brains studied post mortem had CTE.


This post was edited on 1/20/19 at 3:00 pm
Posted by SEC Grapevine
SEC
Member since Sep 2014
502 posts
Posted on 1/19/19 at 9:52 pm to


Well Nick sees the writing on the wall - yelling at everyone.



What would this game be without targeting by ALA. Notice Dabo only yells at the ref - really yells at the ref.



And yet another missed call.
This post was edited on 1/19/19 at 9:55 pm
Posted by SEC Grapevine
SEC
Member since Sep 2014
502 posts
Posted on 1/19/19 at 9:58 pm to


Goal line stand - Venables is good.



Venables blitzed on over 30% of the plays.
Posted by Topwater Trout
Red Stick
Member since Oct 2010
67593 posts
Posted on 1/19/19 at 9:59 pm to
Clemson’s scheme scored how many against Bama in 2017?
Posted by SEC Grapevine
SEC
Member since Sep 2014
502 posts
Posted on 1/19/19 at 10:05 pm to


6'4" Justyn Ross Dabo stole from ALA

Posted by des4271
Member since Oct 2014
4032 posts
Posted on 1/19/19 at 10:12 pm to
Your reasons is why he's saying the scheme/game planning/playcalling is flawed at LSU. For the reason you mentioned, is why they needed to have 2 step slants,swing passes to rb's, bubble screens to get the ball out of Joe's hands faster. It's not always that easy either but the "max protect" hasn't worked for a long time and that was proven over and over again in the miles era.
Posted by TrevRollings29
Orlando
Member since Dec 2018
969 posts
Posted on 1/19/19 at 10:16 pm to
quote:

Clemson’s scheme scored how many against Bama in 2017?


A. They went out and got them a top notch qb instead of convincing their fans that Bryant was hurt, the ol sucked or anything else. They still got to the playoffs.

B. Clemsons scheme evolved this year, as it does every year. This is not the same offense they ran with Deshaun Watson. You know the scheme that beat Bama that year.

C. To answer your question, 6 more points than O and E combo ever have.
Posted by TigerLunatik
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Jan 2005
93803 posts
Posted on 1/19/19 at 10:22 pm to
That's my main concern in this debate of line vs scheme, Trev. I don't like the idea of having to have better players in order to be better. I believe the offense should be adapted to fit the players on the team and not the other way around. I'm anxious to see how we do that this upcoming season or if there is any change.
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