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Message
re: Offensive breakdown from 2005-2012 and 3 questions
Posted on 2/11/13 at 7:16 am to Tiger Voodoo
Posted on 2/11/13 at 7:16 am to Tiger Voodoo
quote:
We ran for 600 yards LESS in 09 than in 08
You conveniently leave out the 37 sacks and short gains JJ got from tucking and ducking because he couldn't process the plays quickly enough. And then accuse the other poster of selective statistics?
JL up until the Alabama game was having an all-SEC season in 2011, and that defense abused several other QB's that we would have all loved to have. Let's just be thankful that horrific chapter is closed.
2
Posted on 2/11/13 at 7:20 am to josh336
quote:Leave it up to Crowton, and Stud?
The stats prove that Les, while a good recruiter, is not a good offensive mind, he should leave that up to his OC.
Posted on 2/11/13 at 7:23 am to coldhotwings
quote:
Lee wasn't good. Neither was Jefferson. end of debate
It was the Land of Oz...
Lee was the cowardly lion and Jefferson was the scarecrow. One had no courage, and the other had no brain.
Posted on 2/11/13 at 7:26 am to Penrod
quote:
It was the Land of Oz...
Lee was the cowardly lion and Jefferson was the scarecrow. One had no courage, and the other had no brain.
I guess that would make Perrilloux the tin man. No heart.
Posted on 2/11/13 at 7:28 am to Penrod
That's the most I've laughed out loud at a Rant post in a long time. (Perhaps since the Ray Lewis concession stand thread?) I have to hand it to you, that was a good one.
Posted on 2/11/13 at 9:07 am to Doc Fenton
quote:
I'll say it again now: the 2009 passing offense was the worst LSU has had in the last decade.
you're not even gonna update this statement to adjust for 2010?
Posted on 2/11/13 at 9:22 am to ATLTiger
Nope.
Posted on 2/11/13 at 9:37 am to Tiger Voodoo
:kige:
Posted on 2/11/13 at 9:39 am to ATLTiger
2009 and 2010 passing offenses were equally forgettable. If one was better than the other it wasn't by much. I know the 2009 OL was the weakest I've ever seen at LSU.
Posted on 2/11/13 at 9:43 am to biglego
i'm not getting into a lee vs JJ thing but that Oz post was a good one.
i agree with most things in this post. i will say though that any successful team running some semblance of a pro style offense isn't going to be 50/50 run/pass. the expectation will be that you will take the air out of the ball because you have a lead against inferior opponents and that will skew you more towards run numbers.
someone posted a while back that both bama and UGA were somewhere in the 60/40 neighborhood this season. and it's about in that spot where LSU needs to be ratio wise.
quote:
01. What are the reasons for the decided gap between 2005-2008 and 2009-2012?
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If you look at the dropoff from '08 to '09 you will see that it primarily came from rushing yardage. Our OLine that year blew dick. Lee had a 1000yard rusher in Scott his year, but JJ didn't have shite.
After that year the Rushing picked back up, but the passing never came back. That is a result of losing Perilloux and having JJ as our QB. Likely a result of conservative playcalling due to the INT laden '08.
As for offensive ranking, you will notice our ranking went from 12 to 23 from '06 to '07, but our numbers actually went up. The rise of the spread offense pushed out ranking lower despite similar numbers.
quote:
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02. Based on more passing yards than rushing in 2012 could it be said the staff wanted to pass more? It seemed to me LSU wanted to pass every game but due pass protection breakdowns, injuries, Receivers simply dropping the ball, etc, they were forced to run often.
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Fair assessment imo. The injuris on the Oline in 2012 were the primary cause for the disappointing season. Once we got a new set of starters fixed the offense picked back up. Unfortunately the UF game had already been lost by that point in the season.
quote:
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03. For those who haven't already made up their minds: For 2013 do you see a 50/50 pass/rush ratio as a distinct possibility with a 'Total Offense' rank around 40?
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I'd say 50/50 is around where we will end up. I could see 60/40 either way or anywhere in between. We have a good set of returning linemen, receivers and RBs. Mett has an extra year of experience. The offense should improve from last year. I'd say 3000/2200 pass/rush is about where we will end up.
i agree with most things in this post. i will say though that any successful team running some semblance of a pro style offense isn't going to be 50/50 run/pass. the expectation will be that you will take the air out of the ball because you have a lead against inferior opponents and that will skew you more towards run numbers.
someone posted a while back that both bama and UGA were somewhere in the 60/40 neighborhood this season. and it's about in that spot where LSU needs to be ratio wise.
This post was edited on 2/11/13 at 9:45 am
Posted on 2/11/13 at 10:50 am to Icansee4miles
quote:Good try, but JJ's negative for sacks and TFL was about -240yds for +170yds rushing, not the 600yd deficit from '08.
You conveniently leave out the 37 sacks and short gains JJ got from tucking and ducking because he couldn't process the plays quickly enough. And then accuse the other poster of selective statistics?
The OL was shite and the staff admitted as much.
They couldn't run block or pass block and were way worse than even 2012's pieced together OL.
Posted on 2/11/13 at 11:32 am to Mayhawman
Good to know TeamSwag is still around-JJ will need your blind support again when he goes to trial for his latest transgressions.
They are both gone, that's worth a
They are both gone, that's worth a
Posted on 2/11/13 at 12:18 pm to Doc Fenton
quote:
I laid it out in detail in terms of yards per pass play many times.
Uh, spin it Doc. Whatever you laid out smells.
'08- YPA 6.7, COMP 52.7%, RAT 117.42
'09- YPA 7.0, COMP 58.7%, RAT 131.91
'09 was accomplished while QB was running for his life, as in JL vs frickin defensive powerhouse La Tech.
quote:LOL, the'08 group was practically an intact starting OL from the '07 NC winner, missing only Carnell Stewart.
Herman Johnson was supposed to be some awesome superstar at OG, and somehow people just forgot how bad Helms got tossed around like a rag doll by defenders from top defenses in 2008
When Herm and Helms left in '08, a hurt Black and Hitt were left on an island in a sea of incompetence.
quote:I'm not saying Lee was the problem, as he tried to do what was asked of him.
People who think he was the main problem in 2008 are just plain idiots.
But....to spin that an offense that puts up yds, yet through TOs hands over points and field position to opponents is somehow profficient, well that's against common football knowledge that extends down to Pop Warner.
Posted on 2/11/13 at 1:05 pm to Icansee4miles
quote:
You conveniently leave out the 37 sacks and short gains JJ got from tucking and ducking because he couldn't process the plays quickly enough. And then accuse the other poster of selective statistics?
Haha wow I'm using selective stats??? Well at least mine are accurate. LSU gave up 35 sacks in 09, not 37, compared to 22 in 08. Which is 13 more sacks, but again NINE less INTs, and I won't even mention how many less PICK SIXES. Now if you'd still rather Lee's 08 numbers, that isn't even even including JJs comp percentage which was almost 10% better. Lee was barely over 50% while JJ was over 60.
And the sacks are more a result of our OL situation, as most people agree was far worse in 09.
Look, I have NEVER taken a side in the JJ/Lee debate. I defended Lee pretty much on my own in 08, but pretending our QB play was better in 08 than in 09 is fricking hilarious.
And I love all the people who blast JJs pocket presence, when Lee was the would shite his pants anytime a defender got the slightest bit of pressure.
Oh, and to the poster who made the Wizard of Oz reference, holy shite POST OF THE DECADE
LINK TO STATS
Posted on 2/11/13 at 1:16 pm to Penrod
quote:
Penrod
VERY well played!!
Posted on 2/11/13 at 6:25 pm to Football_Freak
quote:
These stats are ok-at-best. They will yield a shallow assessment.
You need to look at the percentage of possessions that yielded:
A] 4-or-more consecutive first downs -or-
B] a TD for the good,
or for the bad:
C] 3-and-out possession percentages IN THE FIRST-THRU-3RD QTRS.
Until such stats are available, you are chasing false indicators.
Football_Freak - I agree there are better indicators of performance (as you've suggested) but that doesn't totally discredit the OP.
IMO, Les underwent a paradigm shift after '08 (and wisely so); he didn't want to repeat the int fest of '08. Win with ST's and D and not turning the ball over. Until now, we haven't strayed too far off this path.
Ideally, you want the D to account for the entire field every play, i.e., 50/50 run/pass ratio. As others have mentioned, this might get skewed some in OOC blowouts.
I expect is to be very balanced on O.
Posted on 2/11/13 at 6:43 pm to dbt_Geaux_Tigers_196
These stats arent good enough. Youd actuakly have to factor in pass attempts and sacks. We threw it way more this year.
Posted on 2/11/13 at 6:58 pm to Commando
quote:
JJ will need your blind support again when he goes to trial for his latest transgressions.
JJ's trial doesn't mean much now, since he gone.
Best thing for LSU is he takes care of his legals quietly, does well in Arena and reps LSU in a positive light.
I'd like to see Lee playing somewhere too.
Posted on 2/11/13 at 11:10 pm to dbt_Geaux_Tigers_196
There are several reasons that the post-2007-LSU wasn't very dominant. The 2007 team could not be beat when they were healthy. They weren't healthy against UK or Arkansas. However, the NC game showed what LSU could do when they had the shotgun fully loaded without the plug (outside of the first 5-10 minutes).
That 2007 team had a ridiculous amount of not only senior talent but also senior leadership. 2008 there wasn't a true leader/group of leaders in the locker room like 2007. Couple that with a RS-Fr QB who was thrown into the wolves while also trying to play catch-up with Malvetto on the other side. However, the senior talent and leadership were the main reasons why 2008-2010 weren't like the others.
That 2007 team had a ridiculous amount of not only senior talent but also senior leadership. 2008 there wasn't a true leader/group of leaders in the locker room like 2007. Couple that with a RS-Fr QB who was thrown into the wolves while also trying to play catch-up with Malvetto on the other side. However, the senior talent and leadership were the main reasons why 2008-2010 weren't like the others.
Posted on 2/12/13 at 6:14 am to dbt_Geaux_Tigers_196
quote:
01. What are the reasons for the decided gap between 2005-2008 and 2009-2012?
Checking the 2006 Box Scores, I think I counted 7 guys between the RB's and WR's who played in the NFL. In 2007 it was like 9.
We had probably the best talent in the country between WR's and RB's and 2 NFL caliber QB's. I think that would make anyone's crappy offensive play calling look good. Yet our offensive rankings were 56, 12, and 23.
I don't think that we realized the talent we had at the time and we probably still don't give them full credit. How many teams in the country had better or even equal talent on offense to LSU in those years, and what was their offensive rankings? And I'm not even counting the gimmick teams who would give up a million points.
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