re: Let’s all take a deep breath

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So...it really IS a one game schedule if we care about any reasonable goals for the program.

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Glad someone else see this. This is the reason Miles was let geaux. The shrimp boat captain must be held to the same standard. He has really fumbled developing the offense with his idiocy over the OC hire. How many more mistakes like that does he get?

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miles was fired because he could not attain that.

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I'll ask you, because you and I definitely disagree about Miles, but we're 100% on board regarding Orgeron.

The new narrative around here is that Miles was not fired for losing, but for being stubborn. Anytime someone points out that Miles was fired for failing to get back up over the hump, even though he was averaging 10 wins a year, people feel the need to try and spin it as something else.

So...why was he fired? For being stubborn, or losing?

FWIW, losing because many feel he was being stubborn is probably the right answer. Holding on to an archaic offensive scheme despite all indicators of it not working was an issue...but...had he continue to win bludgeoning teams with it, who in their right mind would have fired him for winning titles ugly?

The reason this matters, and should matter, is that if this is re-framed and people begin to believe that Miles was let go because of some personality issue and NOT because of his win/loss record than it gives cover to the current staff's win/loss record. Anytime people point to the possibility of a 10 win season, guys like you (and others...many of whom are now flaking for Orgeron) ought to be reminding everyone that not very long ago people were upset with 10 win meaningless seasons. So much so, they got the last guy fired because of them.

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Remember, we don’t even necessarily have to beat Bama and win the West to make the playoff.

Had we not failed against Florida (again), we STILL be in the hunt.

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yup

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So...why was he fired? For being stubborn, or losing?

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for not contending for the west anymore. his last real contending team was 2012 and that team coulda won it all had they beat bama like they should have

losing? during out annual November decline? remember les had a losing record to bama, arky and ole miss his last 3 years. maybe if we count those losses and not contending, but overall he won a shite ton of games. kudos to him. I really think it was the lack of contention thus not leading to more titles. Will we hold O to same standard?

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Anytime people point to the possibility of a 10 win season, guys like you (and others...many of whom are now flaking for Orgeron) ought to be reminding everyone that not very long ago people were upset with 10 win meaningless seasons.

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i agree! it is what i just said above. IDC how many wins it takes we need championships. It boils down to yet again being in contention on a regular basis and coming through every several years. if i had confidence in a coach who we knew would come through every several years like i did with the coach before les and even during les' early years i would easily accept a couple 8-4 years( i know this is not seen as contention years but if we knew we would be there every few years it is still on a regular basis) in between seen as development and mulligan years. i was bashed for saying this. i do not expect titles everey year. it boils down to program confidence and direction.

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Any competitive person that has ever played a down of organized football at any level full well knows that if you don't finish in first place at the end of the season, you might as well be in last place.

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Just for curiosity sake, how many years did you play organized football and how many times did you finish in 1st?

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But I'm not going to say it's Playoffs or bust.

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it is win west or make playoffs on a consistent basis every 3 years. 2 years in between allowed for development and mulligans and being realistic. miles was fired because he could not attain that.

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Fine. Wonderful concept.

It's not realistic.

Alabama has finished either first in the West, or tied for first (same record but not officially winning it), in the following years:
2008, 2009, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018 (they've wrapped it up).

During that stretch they've made either the BCS or Playoffs the following:
2009, 2011, 2012, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017.

They've won the national title the following:
2009, 2011, 2012, 2015, 2017.

Saban started out with the formula he had at LSU- smothering defense, conservative offense. There was a period where some teams outscored him using a HUNH offense, and we thought the chink in the armor was found. He's since adapted, and now has the best OFFENSE in the game, to go with everything else. Looking at the LSU games (facing elite defenses), that means he's gone from winning 10-0 to 29-0.

It's great to challenge that. It's ideal. It's what you have to do.
But it's not realistic to think ANYONE is going to overcome that, every 3 years. Everyone else besides Saban gets fired, given that condition. It sucks, but is what it is right now.

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It's not realistic.

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I don't disagree...but then I didn't fire the last coach who also would not be able to achieve this goal given what Saban has done.

I don't recall your view on Miles...given your take on Saban being almost untouchable, why should we have even bothered letting miles go and risk hiring Orgeron when it appears no change would ultimately matter so long as Saban is there?

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It's not realistic.

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I don't disagree...but then I didn't fire the last coach who also would not be able to achieve this goal given what Saban has done.

I don't recall your view on Miles...given your take on Saban being almost untouchable, why should we have even bothered letting miles go and risk hiring Orgeron when it appears no change would ultimately matter so long as Saban is there?

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My thoughts on the Miles situation was to basically let it run it's course...

let him know he was "retiring", either upwards into admin, or in reality. He'd be allowed to finish out to get the LSU records, groom Aranda for a year or 2. Then hand it off, like Oklahoma did with Lincoln Riley.
It's interesting to note that Aranda was already associate head coach under Miles, so I don't think it's a stretch to think that's where they were going.

If that happens, you never know what occurs differently; but I think Miles beats Fla in 2016 and we go to the Sugar.
If Miles were there last year, I don't think there's a lack of focus and effort early on, so I think we play Miss St better, if not win outright, in a game similar to this year's. We DO beat Troy. I still think we beat Auburn, as that was the game we finally started playing with "LSU effort".

So I'd say 10-3 in 2016 and probably 11-2 last year. This year, would either be Miles' last or Aranda's first. Burrow still comes, because all he really did was follow Etling and Mettenberger to the most successful program that actively uses QB transfers. Our O Line would be deep, and we probably have a stud RB either here today, or lined up. That deeper O line probably translates to a win at Fla, so we'd be 8-1 and stinging from the Bama loss, but still holding a slight hope for the SEC and playoffs.

Aranda gets increased input into the OC while still DC, and gets to choose his OC when he takes over.

In the end, we're about at the same spot we are now, but with a young new HC with potentially a higher ceiling; and a lot less drama and acrimony the past 2 years.

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Everyone else besides Saban gets fired, given that condition. It sucks, but is what it is right now.

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Uh, it's realistic because everyone else HAS gotten fired besides Saban