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Started By
Message
re: Lester Earl ,Josh336,Honkus and Tiger Ryno are not going to like this pitch count
Posted on 4/19/25 at 11:25 am to doubleb
Posted on 4/19/25 at 11:25 am to doubleb
quote:
And MLB pitchers are getting hurt on a regular basis.
Is there any evidence that lower pitch counts are reducing arm or shoulder injuries?
Is that a rhetorical question?
Why do you think pitchers are having more arm surgeries now?
I have a theory but i am curious to yours.
1
Posted on 4/19/25 at 11:26 am to Lester Earl
Kopps threw 89.2 innings. In his last year Smtih threw 84. It makes the point, rather than refutes it.
This post was edited on 4/19/25 at 11:28 am
Posted on 4/19/25 at 11:27 am to josh336
quote:
You and i both know there isnt any specific answer to that. But there would be a whole lot of factors i would be taking into account in the situation. Including the kids draft future.
And that's the point. No one knows. Beyond that no one knows the baseline issue which is whether pitch count limits in any specific game have any protective effect against arm injuries.
Posted on 4/19/25 at 11:30 am to Lester Earl
quote:
I have a theory but i am curious to yours.
I believe that pitchers are throwing harder than their arms are “built”. It’s not overuse, it’s is because they throw so had.
Posted on 4/19/25 at 11:32 am to doubleb
quote:
It’s not overuse, it’s is because they throw so had.
It's likely some combination of effort, techniques on break, pitching mix, and cumulative number of pitches over a larger time horizon, not one particular usage. To your point, if the answer was easy, strict pitch counts would majorly reduce the occurrence.
Posted on 4/19/25 at 11:33 am to supersaints9
I have no particular opinion on this, but OP is probably doesn’t help your case that Kade Anderson has a 9 ERA since his outing against Oklahoma…
Posted on 4/19/25 at 11:35 am to LSBoosie
And this is what we end up with on this fixation. Correlation implies causation. Yep, this one particular usage resulted in this performance. Pay no mind to his 12 strikeouts which would indicate he was effective on Thursday.
Which Ryan eades performance caused his regression in the second half of every lsu season he participated in?
Which Ryan eades performance caused his regression in the second half of every lsu season he participated in?
This post was edited on 4/19/25 at 11:36 am
Posted on 4/19/25 at 11:35 am to doubleb
quote:
I believe that pitchers are throwing harder than their arms are “built”. It’s not overuse, it’s is because they throw so had.
Right
And do you think it matter how many times you do that over and over? And whether you are under fatigue or not? What abut your mechanics? or the stress that high RPM offspeed pitches put on the arm?
Certainly some of the bigger factors of many when it comes to decisions like this.
Posted on 4/19/25 at 11:36 am to LSBoosie
quote:
I have no particular opinion on this, but OP is probably doesn’t help your case that Kade Anderson has a 9 ERA since his outing against Oklahoma…
So his rough outing against MS ST was in preparation for his overuse against Oklahoma? Or could it be the fact that he’s simply struggled slightly against the SEC so far?
This post was edited on 4/19/25 at 11:39 am
Posted on 4/19/25 at 11:36 am to Lester Earl
quote:
And do you think it matter how many times you do that over and over?
It doesn't matter what anyone thinks because we don't even know that a particular usage is related to arm injuries. No one has demonstrated that.
Posted on 4/19/25 at 11:37 am to LSBoosie
quote:
probably doesn’t help your case
My case was that these individuals wouldn’t like the high pitch count last night. From the responses that they have given in this thread it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that my case was made.
Posted on 4/19/25 at 11:37 am to Lester Earl
I guess that proves that pitchers back then weren’t huge pussies like they are today huh?
Dudes used to go complete games all the time and were just fine. Now if he goes over 100 pitches half of y’all just about go into cardiac arrest thinking his arm is going to fall off.
Dudes used to go complete games all the time and were just fine. Now if he goes over 100 pitches half of y’all just about go into cardiac arrest thinking his arm is going to fall off.
Posted on 4/19/25 at 11:38 am to therick711
quote:
, if the answer was easy, strict pitch counts would majorly reduce the occurrence.
If guys are being trsined to throw too hard then pitch counts would not prevent injuries they would just push the time the arm gave in to a later date.
Would it be better to not over train? Would it be better to train for location, a variety of pitches than for speed?
Posted on 4/19/25 at 11:43 am to Lester Earl
quote:
And do you think it matter how many times you do that over and over? And whether you are under fatigue or not? What abut your mechanics? or the stress that high RPM offspeed pitches put on the arm?
Exactly.
Is Anderson throwing too hard?
What do the experts say? I don’t know, but he’s not known to be a flame thrower.
If he is it’s evident that he will get hurt. Is throwing 10, 20, 30 pitchers “extra” in one game going to make a difference? I can’t say yes or no.
I know that limiting pitch counts had not changed the number of arm or shoulder injuries in mlb. The guys throwing hard get hurt.
This post was edited on 4/19/25 at 11:49 am
Posted on 4/19/25 at 11:49 am to doubleb
quote:
Is Anderson throwing too hard?
What do the experts say? I don’t know, but he’s not known to be a flame thrower.
Anderson is topping out at 96 dude. Understanding that the average LHP throws about 2mph slower than the average RHP, he is undeniably considered a hard throwing LHP.
quote:
I know that limiting pitch counts had not changed the number of arm or shoulder injuries in mlb. The guys throwing hard get hurt.
You have no way of knowing if it is preventing injuries or not. I think most people in position to call a pitcher an "investment", or in position to harvest an investment (like jay johnson), would not like to see their pitcher throw 135 pitches and then get injured.
Posted on 4/19/25 at 11:55 am to vidtiger23
quote:
So his rough outing against MS ST was in preparation for his overuse against Oklahoma? Or could it be the fact that he’s simply struggled slightly against the SEC so far?
I have no clue and I’m not claiming to know, which is why I literally said I have no opinion on the matter. I’m just saying it doesn’t help the OP’s argument.
I have no clue how much high pitch counts affect injuries or fatigue for future outings. I think it probably varies person to person.
This post was edited on 4/19/25 at 11:58 am
Posted on 4/19/25 at 11:57 am to chadr07
quote:
Dudes used to go complete games all the time and were just fine. Now if he goes over 100 pitches half of y’all just about go into cardiac arrest thinking his arm is going to fall off.
Yep. You wouldnt want a guy today throwing 100+ each outing, but a game or two isnt going to hurt one bit.
Posted on 4/19/25 at 11:58 am to Lester Earl
quote:
College kids aren’t throwing this many pitches either. There just isn’t the comprehensive, accessible data to help ignorant people understand that it doesn’t really happen.
You’re not wrong.
But LSU is trying to win championships. The series win against Bama is a huge step towards that accomplishment. Win at all costs regardless of pitch count.
Skenes threw a metric ton of pitches in Omaha bc he was stretched out all season. We won.
Although I agree with your point about pitch count. It’s an issue. But this is college. Let’s win rings. Not worried about MLB draft and signing bonuses.
Posted on 4/19/25 at 12:00 pm to chadr07
quote:
Dudes used to go complete games all the time and were just fine. Now if he goes over 100 pitches half of y’all just about go into cardiac arrest thinking his arm is going to fall off.
That’s true, but they also weren’t putting as much stress on their arms as guys are today. Both things can be true.
Posted on 4/19/25 at 12:00 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
Anderson is topping out at 96 dude. Understanding that the average LHP throws about 2mph slower than the average RHP, he is undeniably considered a hard throwing LHP.
Anderson isn’t known as a flame thrower. He seldom hits 94. And do you think left handed arms are built different than right handed arms? I believe they are built the same.
But I’d say Anderson does throw hard, but not extremely hard.
quote:
You have no way of knowing if it is preventing injuries or not. I think most people in position to call a pitcher an "investment", or in position to harvest an investment (like jay johnson), would not like to see their pitcher throw 135 pitches and then get injured.
Earlier I posted a link to an article that says it’s not. I believe what that article says is true,
Again
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