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Message
re: Les is the best coach that LSU has ever had
Posted on 2/14/11 at 4:58 pm to tduecen
Posted on 2/14/11 at 4:58 pm to tduecen
quote:"Headed in the proper direction"??? They're "headed" to 6-6 at that rate; 10-3 is a 4 game dropoff from the year before. That's not "headed" in any right direction.
That shows me he has them headed in the proper direction
quote:No, 2004 WAS Saban's 5th year at LSU.
5th year vs 4th year... again splitting hairs to fulfill your argument in the thread
quote:Yes, that's true. The difference is that one of them has recovered from that stumble and brought his team back to an elite level, and one has not. Whether he does this year or sticks around any more years to do it in the future remains to be seen. But he has yet to actually do it. That still counts for something in reasonable consideration.
As stated both coaches had a similar situation and both faltered during their time at LSU after winning a NC because of no returning QB.
quote:I have yet to make it about either of them being "better"; I have never cared about what coach is "better" than any other coach, I only care about what coach is "better for LSU in the situation we are in now" than any other coach. In 2000, Nick Saban was -- imo -- the absolutely best coach in the country for LSU in the situation we were in. In 2005, I don't believe that was the case. I believe Les Miles was a better coach for LSU in the situation we were in then. I think he would probably have been better than Saban in 2004, as well. And now, as we head into 2011, Miles track record suggests to me that he is a better coach for LSU in the situation we are in now than Saban would be.
If people feel Nick is better after taking over for Dinardo then fine
If people feel Les is better for producing 4 Top 10 season in 6 then fine
1
Posted on 2/14/11 at 5:00 pm to Scoob
quote:Well said. Could not agree more.
Edit to add- both are excellent coaches, as their records and accomplishments show. I'd say they are driven by different desires- Nick seems to thrive in taking potential powers and maxing them out, in a 5 yr plan. We don't know if he has any real interest in keeping things going, because he hasn't done that yet. Les appears to "have the want" to be Bo Shembechler Jr; which is to say he wants to run a long-standing power, with no desire to start over anywhere else (I think Okie St was his stepping stone).
Posted on 2/14/11 at 5:03 pm to King Joey
quote:Continuing a 10 win seasons... of course 3 losses when you lose your entire defense people consider that a success
"Headed in the proper direction"??? They're "headed" to 6-6 at that rate; 10-3 is a 4 game dropoff from the year before. That's not "headed" in any right direction.
quote:Comparing Saban's 5th vs Les Miles 4th when LSU went 8-5... 5th year vs 4th year is splitting hair as the rosters are majority players recruited by said coach.
No, 2004 WAS Saban's 5th year at LSU.
quote:Well just agree to disagree as I think Saban would have similar success while at LSU had he remained. I still think 05 with Katrina the coaching job Les did is on par with Saban in 03 but doesn't change fact I do believe Saban would have produced 10 win seasons just as well as Les.
Miles track record suggests to me that he is a better coach for LSU in the situation we are in now than Saban would be.
Posted on 2/14/11 at 5:05 pm to King Joey
quote:I believe that he is. From all accounts he seems at peace with himself and can find challenges on a less grand stage, such as developing individuals.
he might be up to that challenge.
Posted on 2/14/11 at 5:20 pm to tduecen
quote:
I still think 05 with Katrina the coaching job Les did is on par with Saban in 03
I'd actually put last year in that group too. It was clear that the natives- no, make that the entire nation- were restless, and ready to lynch Miles. He was clearly a worse coach than Urban and Nick, and was letting LSU return to the Hallman days. ESPN took as many shots at him as they did at Weis over at Notre Dame, and nationally it was evident Les was done.
He took a good running game and defense and went 11-2, and won the 3 must-win games (Ole Miss, Florida, and Bama) that we screamed for. Then he pounded the crap out of our bowl opponent again, just for good measure. Considering his career was basically on the line and having JJ as his best QB, that was clutch. Real clutch.
Posted on 2/14/11 at 5:23 pm to tduecen
quote:He's in my sig, but I don't hate him. More like a respected aversary. He did good for LSU, but now leads my eternal enemy in raids on LSU pride.
anti-saban segment of the fan base
I don't care for those who diss the LSU leader and put Saban on a pedestal.(Lord knows he needs one)
Posted on 2/14/11 at 5:41 pm to Mayhawman
quote:
put Saban on a pedestal.(Lord knows he needs one)
Thanks...you made me laugh.
Nick can coach my team any day.
But the choice for me is do you want the good coach who left for his dream job or do you want the good coach who acted like LSU was his dream job?
Not a hard call for me to make.
Posted on 2/14/11 at 5:47 pm to tduecen
quote:Ah. Well, see, I wasn't comparing. I was noting Saban's performance after completing the "challenge", and how it was consistent with his performance in a similar situation when he was at LSU. So the "comparison", if there was one, would have been between Saban's 2010 season at Bama and Saban's 2004 season at LSU.
Comparing Saban's 5th vs Les Miles 4th when LSU went 8-5
quote:Well, noting that Les didn't produce 10 win seasons, your point is still entirely plausible. MY only point is that while he has never proven that ability (at the top 10/better than 10 win level Miles has established as a norm) post-championship, Miles has. And so in terms of proven ability to maintain, Miles has the edge in actual evidence.
I do believe Saban would have produced 10 win seasons just as well as Les.
Posted on 2/14/11 at 6:14 pm to King Joey
behind Saban
Posted on 2/14/11 at 6:40 pm to bearcat78
quote:
Les is the best coach that LSU has ever had
Posted on 2/14/11 at 7:34 pm to HuRRiCaNe MiLeS
HuRRiCaNe MiLeS nice pic..
Posted on 2/14/11 at 7:44 pm to HuRRiCaNe MiLeS
quote:
Les is the best coach that LSU has ever had
Even for the Saban-forever fans, what's funny about suggesting Les as the best? In his 6 years at LSU, the SEC has produced 5 national titles. The Invincible Lord Saban is at Alabama with 1, Super-genius Urban had 2 at Fla, and Auburn just now won. Also remember that the Ol' Ball Coach is over in SC, and the Sabanesque Petrino is now in Arkansas with a formidable offense. And that's not even looking at Georgia and Tennessee, who have also had very strong teams at times in his tenure. Competing against those obstacles, Les is averaging more than 10 wins a season, has won 5 out of 6 bowl games (including epic beatdowns of Miami and Notre Dame when they were ranked), and a national title. You may build a case that Saban, or Dietzel etc, may have been better, but Les has faced a buzzsaw of a conference and done exceptionally well.
Posted on 2/14/11 at 8:00 pm to tduecen
There is many more one hit wonders that can build but not sustain. Or go to another school and not get near the same result. Elite coaches build and maintain, and you can count those on one hand.
I do believe sustaing is harder. I remember wake forest, mizzou, Illinois, Iowa etc all having great years only to go to shite.
I do believe sustaing is harder. I remember wake forest, mizzou, Illinois, Iowa etc all having great years only to go to shite.
Posted on 2/14/11 at 8:19 pm to Hitchcock
quote:
Hitchcock
U mad bro?
Posted on 2/14/11 at 8:29 pm to HuRRiCaNe MiLeS
quote:
U mad bro?
No.
Posted on 2/14/11 at 8:36 pm to Scoob
quote:
Competing against those obstacles, Les is averaging more than 10 wins a season, has won 5 out of 6 bowl games (including epic beatdowns of Miami and Notre Dame when they were ranked), and a national title
And in that, the LSU SEC record since 05 is only bettered by Fla. and that by 3 games.
And I wouldn't be surprized if in that time period the LSU OOC record was the very best in the SEC and maybe in the nation for BCS schools.
That's mighty high cotton for LM to be walkin' in, whether or not you like the man as a coach.
Posted on 2/14/11 at 8:39 pm to HuRRiCaNe MiLeS
quote:
HuRRiCaNe MiLeS
yea...u mad
Posted on 2/14/11 at 8:39 pm to King Joey
quote:I would not say 1 season of 10 wins in last 3 after his championship the "norm" however...
Miles has established as a norm) post-championship, Miles has. And so in terms of proven ability to maintain, Miles has the edge in actual evidence.
Saban after 2003 went 9-3
Saban after 2009 went 10-3
Miles after 2007 went 8-5, Miles then followed it up with 9-4, and then 11-2... So it did take him 3 years to win 10+ games and finish in the top again post championship...
Saban will have a chance to establish the "norm" by producing another 10 win season while at Alabama however.... So your "norms" are flawed to begin with
Posted on 2/14/11 at 8:45 pm to tduecen
quote:
Saban will have a chance to establish the "norm" by producing another 10 win season while at Alabama however.... So your "norms" are flawed to begin with
1 10 win regular season at LSU in 5 seasons.
Posted on 2/14/11 at 8:49 pm to Hitchcock
Good god man give it up... As I stated earlier the anti-Saban resentment is stronger than the anti-Miles resentment...
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