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Johnny Jones vs SEC Coaches: Objective Comparisons
Posted on 12/18/16 at 1:13 am
Posted on 12/18/16 at 1:13 am
There may be legitimate criticism of Johnny Jones coaching abilities and game management. However, to call him the worst SEC coach and other over the top comments are not warranted. A valid comparison of Jones record with his comparable league peers will show Jones is currently a top 5 league coach.
Calipari at Kentucky is in a league of his own. The coaches at Auburn, Alabama, Mississippi State, Missouri, Florida and Tennessee have less than the four years Jones has at LSU and will not be considered. Yes, some have big names but that does not guarantee success.
The following coaches were in the SEC for the past four years with the following overall and SEC records and league finishes
Johnny Jones, LSU 80-51 40-32 8,6.3,3 Avg 5th
Mike Anderson, ARK 84-50 42-30 7,5,2,8 Avg 5th
Andy Kennedy , OM 87-49 42-30 2,6,3,6 Avg 4th
Frank Martin, SC 70-43 26-46 12,13,11,3 Avg 10th
Billy Kennedy TAM 85-52 39-33 9,11,9,3 Avg 8th
Nark Fox , GA 76-57 42-30 8,2,3,6 Avg 5th
Kevin Stallings,VAN 71-61 35-37 10,10,7,3 Avg 7th
Should LSU elect to replace Jones at some point Alleva must go large. He must be willing to pay whatever it takes to get the best coach available who might be interested in the LSU job. There are probably less than 10 coaches who would not leave their current positions for LSU. Rank the others and make them an offer and one by one until the highest rated coach accepts. He should first inquire whether Billy Donovan might be tired of the NBA and willing to return to college coaching.Now that would be a home run hire.
Calipari at Kentucky is in a league of his own. The coaches at Auburn, Alabama, Mississippi State, Missouri, Florida and Tennessee have less than the four years Jones has at LSU and will not be considered. Yes, some have big names but that does not guarantee success.
The following coaches were in the SEC for the past four years with the following overall and SEC records and league finishes
Johnny Jones, LSU 80-51 40-32 8,6.3,3 Avg 5th
Mike Anderson, ARK 84-50 42-30 7,5,2,8 Avg 5th
Andy Kennedy , OM 87-49 42-30 2,6,3,6 Avg 4th
Frank Martin, SC 70-43 26-46 12,13,11,3 Avg 10th
Billy Kennedy TAM 85-52 39-33 9,11,9,3 Avg 8th
Nark Fox , GA 76-57 42-30 8,2,3,6 Avg 5th
Kevin Stallings,VAN 71-61 35-37 10,10,7,3 Avg 7th
Should LSU elect to replace Jones at some point Alleva must go large. He must be willing to pay whatever it takes to get the best coach available who might be interested in the LSU job. There are probably less than 10 coaches who would not leave their current positions for LSU. Rank the others and make them an offer and one by one until the highest rated coach accepts. He should first inquire whether Billy Donovan might be tired of the NBA and willing to return to college coaching.Now that would be a home run hire.
13
Posted on 12/18/16 at 1:49 am to tigersbb
This isn't football. There are far more than 10 coaches out there who would decide to stay where they are than come to LSU to coach basketball.
Posted on 12/18/16 at 1:57 am to tigersbb
want a great team? pay for a great coach, all of our money is in football
Posted on 12/18/16 at 2:44 am to K_Tiger
quote:
This isn't football. There are far more than 10 coaches out there who would decide to stay where they are than come to LSU to coach basketball
I disagree. With the facilities and the history of the Deaf Dome and the tradition of premier players and some really good teams most coaches would jump at the chance. The university needs to be willing to pay what it takes to entice that coach to leave.
Calipari, K, Roy Williams, Self, Izzo, Boeheim, Alford would not accept. Just about every other coach would strongly consider an offer if LSU is willing to make the financial commitment up front. It has to be a big name coach who can consistently and relentlessly recruit so that a successful team one year is not decimated by an NBA defection. First thing talk to Billy Donovan, then work down the list of current successful college coaches.
Try to avoid that " up and coming " mid level coach, the type which has failed so often at Auburn, Georgia, Arkansas, Tennessee, South Carolina etc. They look good in a three piece suit but 4 to 5 years later a new guy is at the podium from the MEAC or Sunbelt telling us how he is going to be the one to bring excellence.
Posted on 12/18/16 at 4:27 am to K_Tiger
quote:. So true! LSU basketball is about as bad as Kentucky is is in football, probably worse.
This isn't football. There are far more than 10 coaches out there who would decide to stay where they are than come to LSU to coach basketball.
Posted on 12/18/16 at 5:13 am to tigersbb
Those coaches didn't have Ben Simmons
Posted on 12/18/16 at 5:16 am to tigersbb
quote:
The coaches at Auburn, Alabama
Are light years beter than jones. You didnt include them to help your point. Their success already speaks for themselves.
Posted on 12/18/16 at 5:24 am to tigersbb
CJJ has no business coaching organized basketball to anyone above 10 years old. There are 7th grade teams armed with more inbounding plays than us. He's not only tragically inept with the whiteboard, it looks like someone in the stands shot him with a tranquilizer round during the game. Guy has one ability, to recruit. No excuse for basketball IQ that low, at this level. Time to invest money into the program and make a move. The gray hairs and administration at LSU are way too content to kill time with CJJ and simply get by. Time for them to adopt their own mantra and pursue excellence.
Posted on 12/18/16 at 6:26 am to tigersbb
quote:
There are probably less than 10 coaches who would not leave their current positions for LSU.
what reality do you live inPosted on 12/18/16 at 7:51 am to tigersbb
Comparing Jones to other SEC coaches is a limited exercise. Other coaches have been in league differing number of years, other teams may play more difficult OOC schedules (hard for them to play easier OOC than LSU), and ranking in a weak league should be secondary to NCAA tourney success at this point IMO.
Jones would not have even had a sniff at this job based on his resume other than his LSU political connections. His recruiting shine may be gone after the debacle of last year, and I'm concerned that his best LSU coaching results may be behind him. His teams hopefully will not reach the depth of Trent Johnson's teams, but I'm seeing mediocrity in performances. His teams do not play consistent and good defense, they don't block out and rebound consistently, the effort is erratic, and the offense is ineffective at times. After almost 4.5 years of watching his teams, I doubt that the MO will be much different in upcoming years.
If LSU desires to excel in men's basketball, they must go out and pay for the best coach that will come to LSU, play a tougher OOC schedule, and recruit better. Somehow, modernizing the PMAC or building a new arena would be nice, but hopefully would come with more basketball success.
Jones would not have even had a sniff at this job based on his resume other than his LSU political connections. His recruiting shine may be gone after the debacle of last year, and I'm concerned that his best LSU coaching results may be behind him. His teams hopefully will not reach the depth of Trent Johnson's teams, but I'm seeing mediocrity in performances. His teams do not play consistent and good defense, they don't block out and rebound consistently, the effort is erratic, and the offense is ineffective at times. After almost 4.5 years of watching his teams, I doubt that the MO will be much different in upcoming years.
If LSU desires to excel in men's basketball, they must go out and pay for the best coach that will come to LSU, play a tougher OOC schedule, and recruit better. Somehow, modernizing the PMAC or building a new arena would be nice, but hopefully would come with more basketball success.
Posted on 12/18/16 at 8:00 am to tigersbb
Top 5 talent last year and can't make the tournament. Those coaches that have comparable year to year talent are winning NC or at least making the final 4.
You can list all the Les Miles stats you want, take the eye test and you see his teams do not play with discipline on either end of the floor. Their talent has taken them where they are as far as wins in a VERY BAD SEC.
I've talked with Johnny on multiple occasions about where they are and he knows the deal. It is about making the tournament.
You can list all the Les Miles stats you want, take the eye test and you see his teams do not play with discipline on either end of the floor. Their talent has taken them where they are as far as wins in a VERY BAD SEC.
I've talked with Johnny on multiple occasions about where they are and he knows the deal. It is about making the tournament.
This post was edited on 12/18/16 at 9:21 am
Posted on 12/18/16 at 8:09 am to tigersbb
quote:
tigersbb
So if you exclude almost half the coaches in the league, and exclude some or most of the career accomplishments of the half you keep in, Jones is in the top five. Wow. What a remarkably shitty way to evaluate a coach.
quote:
Should LSU elect to replace Jones at some point Alleva must go large. He must be willing to pay whatever it takes
On what planet would an AD who cares absolutely nothing about fielding successful teams in any sport and works for a school that cares absolutely nothing about basketball in particular and is run by an incompetent who refuses to allow the AD to spend money ever "go large" or "pay whatever it takes" for a basketball coach? You are talking about an administration at a football school that won't even do that in a football coaching search.
quote:
There are probably less than 10 coaches who would not leave their current positions for LSU.
There might be less than 10 in the SEC. Nationwide, more than 100 is more accurate than less than 10.
Posted on 12/18/16 at 8:12 am to SCP
quote:
I'm concerned that his best LSU coaching results may be behind him.
Jones' best LSU coaching results were behind him before he ever even took the head coaching job. They came when he was an assistant for Dale Brown.
Posted on 12/18/16 at 8:24 am to tigersbb
They can't build momentum. Every time they get fans to show up the team lays a giant fricking turd. You aren't going to build support doing that.
Posted on 12/18/16 at 10:48 am to SCP
quote:
Comparing Jones to other SEC coaches is a limited exercise. Other coaches have been in league differing number of years, other teams may play more difficult OOC schedules (hard for them to play easier OOC than LSU), and ranking in a weak league should be secondary to NCAA tourney success at this point IMO
Would bet their OOC is fairly similar. Most relevant comparison is SEC records for same period. Not much difference there nor in NCAA appeearances.
No doubt his ties to Dale Brown and the program were the reason he was hired.
You echoed my point that to break away from wha tLSU and most of the league have done the next hire must be a home run. That will take financial investment in the coaching hire and the rest will follow.
Posted on 12/18/16 at 11:01 am to Nuts4LSU
quote:
So if you exclude almost half the coaches in the league, and exclude some or most of the career accomplishments of the half you keep in, Jones is in the top five. Wow. What a remarkably shitty way to evaluate a coach.
None of the others coached in the SEC all four years to make a valid comparison. Pearl and Avery have impressive resumes but lets see how that translates over four years in the SEC at their current stops.
Jones average finish was 5th in the SEC. Thats a top 5 coach in the league. His worst finish was 8 th in season number one when he started a tuba player at center.
If LSU is willing to make the financial commitment there is tremendous potential. Dale Brown showed that . Calipari wont be at Kentucky forever. With the right hire LSU can again return to prominence.
You can bet all but a few coaches would come her if they make the right offer. What was saved in the football hire can be applied to basketball if a change is made. Otherwise LSU can tread along like all other SEC programs not named Kentucky.
This post was edited on 12/18/16 at 11:02 am
Posted on 12/18/16 at 11:13 am to ksayetiger
quote:Bruce Pearl was 26-40 9-27 in the SEC ad 13th our of 14 teams his first two years at Auburn. Johnny Jones won 9 games in the SEC in his first season alone with a tuba player starting at center.
Are light years better than jones. You didnt include them to help your point. Their success already speaks for themselves.
Avery was 8-10 and 10th place his first year.
Their success may "speak for itself" but its got a far different accent now.
Posted on 12/18/16 at 11:17 am to Nuts4LSU
quote:Not to mention he excluded Jones' first year and Caligari because he is in a "league of his own. "
So if you exclude almost half the coaches in the league, and exclude some or most of the career accomplishments of the half you keep in, Jones is in the top five. Wow. What a remarkably shitty way to evaluate a coach.
Posted on 12/18/16 at 11:17 am to cadillac7563
quote:
Those coaches didn't have Ben Simmons
Nor did they have to start a tuba player at center in year one. Still went 9-9 in the SEC and 8th place , barely missing the first division for the only time in the league.
With all of Jones deficiencies, real or imagined just think what a home run hire could do at LSU if he is replaced. Bring Billy D back to the SEC.
Posted on 12/18/16 at 11:25 am to mmcgrath
quote:
Not to mention he excluded Jones' first year and Caligari because he is in a "league of his own.
Calipari and Kentucky have owned the league. While laughing you might want to check out who matched up the best against Kentucky over the last four years.
The half of the coaches I excluded did not coach in the SEC over the four year period Jones did. You can project all you want but until they play those 18 game schedules no one knows how they would do.
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