- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Is the MBB best lineup a 4 guard lineup with Chest, Fountain, Miller and Collins low?
Posted on 2/19/25 at 2:59 pm to mmcgrath
Posted on 2/19/25 at 2:59 pm to mmcgrath
Skylar averaged 8pts a game shot it at 42% and his assist to turnover ratio was 2/1 and had over 40 steals as a fresh. Givins averages 1 assist to 1 to a game and shoots it a 28% Not exactly comparing the same type of player. Plus Skylar played solid defense and continued to get better. If you read the post it says Givins has to get exponentially better.
Comparing Skylar and Givins there is no comparison.
Now if Givins improves in every category which is possible, then great stay on the team. He hasn't shown any ability that he could be productive in this conference up to this point.
Mike Williams makes some 3s when he isn't banging 3s off the backboard. Not sure about defensively as he fouls a ton. But, he should have logged more minutes than he has. That's a McM issue. Mike Williams from last year was a better version of this Mike Williams.
What Alt26 is saying is that we are not talented. There is no reason to bring back these mid players to a team already voided of talent. If lsu wants to tell itself to throw NIL money to get better players to give McM an excuse as why he is losing so be it. I don't see this roster coming back besides the ones he's mentioned if you think this can be a competitive team in 2026
Comparing Skylar and Givins there is no comparison.
Now if Givins improves in every category which is possible, then great stay on the team. He hasn't shown any ability that he could be productive in this conference up to this point.
Mike Williams makes some 3s when he isn't banging 3s off the backboard. Not sure about defensively as he fouls a ton. But, he should have logged more minutes than he has. That's a McM issue. Mike Williams from last year was a better version of this Mike Williams.
What Alt26 is saying is that we are not talented. There is no reason to bring back these mid players to a team already voided of talent. If lsu wants to tell itself to throw NIL money to get better players to give McM an excuse as why he is losing so be it. I don't see this roster coming back besides the ones he's mentioned if you think this can be a competitive team in 2026
2
Posted on 2/19/25 at 3:01 pm to mmcgrath
quote:
I guess you guys would have kicked Skylar Mays to the curb after his freshman year too. Givens has great handle and passing skills for a 6'3" guard. The coaching staff feel like his outside shooting will improve, and if he can add some muscle in the pffseason it will do wonders.
Not saying Givens cant get better, he obviously can, but he is one of the worst players on the court at any given time this year. The dude is really bad.
Skylar Mays had a 15.3 PER, and average 8 points, almost 4 assists his freshman year shooting 53% TS%
Givens has a 4.6 PER, averages about 4 points, 2 assists with a mind boggling bad 38% TS%.
Givens is really, really bad. No way around it right now. I would never compare Givens to Skylar Mays in any capacity. Mays was light years better his freshman year.
I dont think it's out of line to say Givens might be the literal worst player to get significant minutes on any LSU team from the last decade almost. I mean a 4.6 PER and 38 TS% is absolutely terrible.
Using Torvik's stats page in the SEC of every SEC player who averages at least 20% of their teams minutes in conference play only (139 players qualify)...he ranks, 137th/139 players in offensive rating, 135th/139 players in TS%, and 130th/139 players in defensive rating. I mean its 1 thing to be bad offensively (so if Derek Fountain), but its another to be equally bad defensively. He's also the worst defensive rebounder on the team which is saying something when we have a 5'10 guard out there playing as well. He's just a terrible overall player.
This post was edited on 2/19/25 at 3:04 pm
Posted on 2/19/25 at 3:02 pm to Mats86
Possibly, but they have a long way to go if we think these freshmen can be the corner stone of a NCAA team that McM says is the goal.
I think V and R Miller can be, they both have improved imo through the year. I thought I mentioned that, Givins has not improved whatsoever.
But, he can in the offseason and tbh needs to if he wants to be on the roster. I personally hope he does as he plays for lsu and I love lsu basketball.
I think V and R Miller can be, they both have improved imo through the year. I thought I mentioned that, Givins has not improved whatsoever.
But, he can in the offseason and tbh needs to if he wants to be on the roster. I personally hope he does as he plays for lsu and I love lsu basketball.
Posted on 2/19/25 at 3:03 pm to thunderbird1100
quote:
Not saying Givens cant get better, he obviously can, but he is one of the worst players on the court at any given time this year. The dude is really bad.
Skylar Mays had a 15.3 PER, and average 8 points, almost 4 assists his freshman year shooting 53% TS%
Givens has a 4.6 PER, averages about 4 points, 2 assists with a mind boggling bad 38% TS%.
Givens is really, really bad. No way around it right now. I would never compare Givens to Skylar Mays in any capacity. Mays was light years better his freshman year.
I dont think it's out of line to say Givens might be the literal worst player to get significant minutes on any LSU team from the last decade almost. I mean a 4.6 PER and 38 TS% is absolutely terrible.
Using Torvik's stats page in the SEC of every SEC player who averages at least 20% of their teams minutes in conference play only (139 players qualify)...he ranks, 137th/139 players in offensive rating, 135th/139 players in TS%, and 130th/139 players in defensive rating. I mean its 1 thing to be bad offensively (so if Derek Fountain), but its another to be equally bad defensively. He's just a terrible overall player
This above, comparing Givins to Skylar doesn't make sense. He has been terrible and the stats and tape says it.
Posted on 2/19/25 at 3:08 pm to Tigerfan19
quote:
This above, comparing Givins to Skylar doesn't make sense. He has been terrible and the stats and tape says it.
Yeah again I dont think it's a stretch to say hes the literal worst player we've had play significant minutes for us in the last decade. A couple guys might come close to him, but I dont think any were THIS bad.
Justice Williams and Justice Hill were better (marginally, not by much) and thats a low bar to set. freshman Eric Gaines was probably equally bad on the offensive end as Givens but defensively light years ahead of Givens.
This post was edited on 2/19/25 at 3:12 pm
Posted on 2/19/25 at 3:15 pm to Tigerfan19
quote:
Agreed unless Giving grows by leaps and bounds he is not a good player. Not sure how his ranking was so high.
It's because he played on one of the best high school basketball teams in history last year. I'd look pretty good passing to cooper flagg all game too.
Posted on 2/19/25 at 3:20 pm to thunderbird1100
quote:
Justice Hill were better
Givens has sucked, but that man Juice Hill, in his fourth season of college basketball, should have never sniffed an SEC basketball court
Posted on 2/19/25 at 3:22 pm to Tigerfan19
quote:
What Alt26 is saying is that we are not talented. There is no reason to bring back these mid players to a team already voided of talent. If lsu wants to tell itself to throw NIL money to get better players to give McM an excuse as why he is losing so be it. I don't see this roster coming back besides the ones he's mentioned if you think this can be a competitive team in 2026
I think this team is more talented than people are giving them credit for. It's just they have a HC who, thus far, has been unable to maximize the potential of any of his rosters. I'm just pointing out the juxtaposition of the excuse makers for MM including, apparently the AD. On the one hand they say poor ole Matt can't win because he just can't get the players because he has no money. Then, on the other, they want to keep several of the "bad" players for next year.
Collins and Chest have the explosiveness no coach can coach. A good coach can help refine their games. He can't teach them to explode of the floor quicker than many. V. Miller doesn't have quite that level of raw athleticism, but he is a very advanced scorer, from all levels, for his age. He's a potential 17-20 ppg scorer if put in the right spot. R. Miller, while unrefined, has the length and potential athleticism for that length you can't team. There are more traits to work with there. The rest of the potential returnees, while not necessarily "bad", don't have some of those raw metrics you can't teach.
As for the "let's play for next year" crowd, I would posit getting a win or two in the next 5 games (against what is likely to be highly seeded NCAAT teams) would do a LOT more to build any type of interest/optimism in the program than playing a true freshman an extra 10 minutes who doesn't do much to help you win those games. If that meant Givens transferred I don't think it is an irreplaceable loss. Is it likely LSU wins any of the next 5 games? No. But doing so would give everyone a small glimmer of hope that MAYBE McMahon can beat great competition...something he hasn't done at all.
This post was edited on 2/19/25 at 3:24 pm
Posted on 2/19/25 at 4:16 pm to Tigerfan19
quote:Given's A/to ratio is 1.5/1.1, which is only slightly lower than Skylar's 3.6 / 2.2 as a freshman.
Skylar averaged 8pts a game shot it at 42% and his assist to turnover ratio was 2/1 and had over 40 steals as a fresh. Givins averages 1 assist to 1 to a game and shoots it a 28%
quote:He was 3/4 from 3 last night but I guess because he changed the one you feel the need to say that?
Mike Williams makes some 3s when he isn't banging 3s off the backboard.
quote:Do you not watch the games?
Not sure about defensively as he fouls a ton.
quote:Not sure he is really saying that. Pretty sure he was trying to sarcastically imitate some straw man that was carried over from 1st year arguments.
What Alt26 is saying is that we are not talented.
This post was edited on 2/19/25 at 4:19 pm
Posted on 2/19/25 at 4:33 pm to Blutarsky
Fountain should be an absolute last resort. His skill-level is on par with the walk-ons. Good kid, but on a basketball court, he is bad things waiting to happen.
Collins, Chest, and Miller are the 3 to rotate. If 2 of those need a spell at the same time, go small and kick Bailey to PF.
Collins, Chest, and Miller are the 3 to rotate. If 2 of those need a spell at the same time, go small and kick Bailey to PF.
Posted on 2/19/25 at 4:40 pm to mmcgrath
quote:
Not sure he is really saying that. Pretty sure he was trying to sarcastically imitate some straw man that was carried over from 1st year arguments.
Not really. Just find it odd that many of the same people saying MM's poor coaching has nothing to do with the abysmal results, "he just has no talent", are the same one lobbying to do what is necessary to retain as much of the "no talent" for next year.
It's ok though. I can see how you may be confused it was 1st year arguments. Year 3 has looked a lot like year 1.
Posted on 2/20/25 at 6:37 am to WhySoSerious
quote:
He’s a freshman. Sears is a senior. This season’s all but over. Preparing for the future. Keeping talented freshmen on the bench is an easy way to get them to hit the portal.
Givens has been given more unearned minutes than anyone on the team IMHO, if he's unhappy enough to transfer based on playing time the adios man - take those mostly unflattering minutes elsewhere.....I'm not saying he is or will - but I am saying there's no case for it.
Page 2 of 2
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News