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Started By
Message
re: If we ever start to run a Wild "Tiger" Formation
Posted on 3/29/09 at 2:19 pm to Meauxjeaux
Posted on 3/29/09 at 2:19 pm to Meauxjeaux
quote:
I disagree on two counts. 1- JJ is our QB, so Shep will make the field as a WR/Wild-whatever guy, 2- RR in the formation I described is too many freshman on the field at once. Claiborne is in there because as a gifted runner with the ability to throw, he is second only to Shep on the team.
Shep has no experience at WR. If Shepard runs more than 1 or 2 real routes in games this year I will be stunned. Now in a year or two, who knows.
Claiborne will most likely be redshirted. He may be able to do what you describe down the road, but you don't go from small time HS football to making plays in the SEC with very good but not elite talent and only one fall of practice.
But my point with JJ and Shep together in a wild-tiger is: when you run it Shep will have to run into the huddle. Shep running into the huddle and JJ staying in will not fool anyone, Shep is going to be part of a gimmic play and the defense needs to ajust accordingly.
This is 10X different than Richard Murphy, for example, staying in from being a RB and playing QB with JJ at WR. The defense doesn't know if Richard Murphy will be a threat from RB or from a running QB position. Shep is not a guy who can play WR with regularity right now, so there is no point in trying to fool the defense by keeping JJ in, you might as well replace him with a more dynamic athelte, such as RR. (Or even Lafell, ect) Keeping JJ in is outsmarting ourselves and not putting our most dynamic players on the field to make plays. I was really responding to SFP more than your idea, as he seems determined that JJ should be in on the single-wing.
1
Posted on 3/29/09 at 2:20 pm to Tigercat
quote:
But my point with JJ and Shep together in a wild-tiger is: when you run it Shep will have to run into the huddle. Shep running into the huddle and JJ staying in will not fool anyone, Shep is going to be part of a gimmic play and the defense needs to ajust accordingly.
then the coaches fail in getting shep on the field elsewhere as a threat. that's a (potential) monumental failure in coaching/scheming/strategy
Posted on 3/29/09 at 2:28 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
then the coaches fail in getting shep on the field elsewhere as a threat. that's a (potential) monumental failure in coaching/scheming/strategy
You can't play him at WR on any regular basis right now, he isn't going to get enough reps to be reliable. He is getting some, but getting a handful of reps at WR after never playing it in HS isn't enough to be ready as a freshman. Now, in a year or two as he gradually gets more reps and understands the speed of the college game, that's when he will be comfortable enough to play a new position like it should be played.
Shep will make PLENTY of plays as our version of 07-Ryan P or 06-Tebow or Pat White off the bench. He just can't be reliable enough to put at WR on a regular basis. And that's why he won't fool anyone as "ordinary" personnel coming into a game. (And why you just assume take JJ out if you run the single-wing.)
Posted on 3/29/09 at 2:31 pm to Tigercat
the shep playbook can be a little as 7-10 plays. he can learn that
guys come in all the time and play WR after not playing WR in high school. and i mean as true freshmen
and just because he lines up at WR doesn't mean he has to play a full WR role. get him out there as a percy harvin type who runs from the slot. and he can handle multiple screens, play actions off the sweeps, lining up for the zone-read.
guys come in all the time and play WR after not playing WR in high school. and i mean as true freshmen
and just because he lines up at WR doesn't mean he has to play a full WR role. get him out there as a percy harvin type who runs from the slot. and he can handle multiple screens, play actions off the sweeps, lining up for the zone-read.
Posted on 3/29/09 at 2:31 pm to Tigercat
quote:
He just can't be reliable enough to put at WR on a regular basis. And that's why he won't fool anyone as "ordinary" personnel coming into a game.
And that's why you don't coach football.
Posted on 3/29/09 at 2:36 pm to Tigercat
quote:
He just can't be reliable enough to put at WR on a regular basis. And that's why he won't fool anyone as "ordinary" personnel coming into a game.
I don't think he'll play classic WR any more than Trindon has. As far as fooling anyone, that's not really the goal, it's to execute with playmakers who can make things happen. Shep could be Harvin-like in his role with the added ability to run some plays at QB.
Posted on 3/29/09 at 2:39 pm to Meauxjeaux
I would be very surpised to see Shep split out 'wide' in a true WR formation this year. Slotback, halfback, in motion, reverses, all yes, but true WR, (as in a threat to go downfield and/or block anyone) is unlikely. Teams are not going to bite on Shep split out wide, they know that's not his true position and are not going to fear that. It's like putting Holliday out there, no one is afraid of that formation and they know that it's a bluff.
Posted on 3/29/09 at 2:45 pm to Meauxjeaux
quote:
And that's why you don't coach football.
I do coach football, little kids. That doesn't count for anything, granted.
And yes, I am saying a true freshman who has never played WR before and will be getting most reps at QB can't be counted on to be a WR on a regular basis. (Which you quoted yourself.) If you disagree with me you have no business telling anyone what they know about football.
Posted on 3/29/09 at 2:46 pm to ForeLSU
quote:
I don't think he'll play classic WR any more than Trindon has. As far as fooling anyone, that's not really the goal, it's to execute with playmakers who can make things happen. Shep could be Harvin-like in his role with the added ability to run some plays at QB.
That's my point, I was making the case why you don't leave Jordan Jefferson in as a WR in a single-wing formation. Because you would ONLY do that as a decoy, and that decoy doesn't make enough sense. You might as well have a real WR in there.
This post was edited on 3/29/09 at 2:49 pm
Posted on 3/29/09 at 2:49 pm to Tigercat
but the decoy does make sense. i don't see how you don't get that
Posted on 3/29/09 at 2:55 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
but the decoy does make sense. i don't see how you don't get that
It only makes sense when the personnel you have says that you could run a typical play with that personnel or the single-wing package. With both RS and JJ in the huddle this year with no real "regular" WR it will be obvious what we are going to do, because again, RS will not be a "regular" WR or RB. Whereas Richard Murphy is a regular RB for LSU and Ronnie Brown is a regular RB for Miami and could signal a regular formation when you don't remove the QB.
That faulty decoy isn't worth it for the ability at wideout you lose by having JJ instead of RR or Lafell.
This post was edited on 3/29/09 at 2:57 pm
Posted on 3/29/09 at 2:57 pm to SlowFlowPro
As a side note, didn't Shep play WR early in high school?
This post was edited on 3/29/09 at 5:18 pm
Posted on 3/29/09 at 3:00 pm to DEANintheYAY
quote:
As a side note, didn't Shep play QB early in high school?
Do you mean WR? Possibly. He was probably athletic enough that you couldn't keep him off the field in some way as a freshman/soph. I'm sure he played some defense at some point too.
Posted on 3/29/09 at 3:01 pm to Tigercat
quote:
With both RS and JJ in the huddle this year with no real "regular" WR
there will likely be 2 other "regular" WRs on the field for the wild-x, so why wouldn't they take the huddle otherwise?
quote:
Whereas Richard Murphy is a regular RB for LSU and Ronnie Brown is a regular RB for Miami and could signal a regular formation when you don't remove the QB.
i don't see where murphy fits in, but brown isn't teh guy you should be talking about. it's ricky williams
quote:
That faulty decoy isn't worth it for the ability at wideout you lose by having JJ instead of RR or Lafell.
it's more of a choice between RS and Randall or chris toliver
Posted on 3/29/09 at 3:30 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
there will likely be 2 other "regular" WRs on the field for the wild-x, so why wouldn't they take the huddle otherwise?
The most common single-wing setup:
RB/Speed back/dynamic runner WR on the edge
(Richard Murphy/Holliday/without Jared Mitchell don't have a good WR option to take long sweeps)
Athletic QB getting the snap (Shep, duh)
FB/Power back for the zone read(if you do the zone read on that formation) or blocking
(Ridley/Scott)
TE/FB At the line or just offset
True WR/Decoy QB on the other edge
(Lafell, RR, Tolliver/JJ)
LSU could put a WR where Holliday or another RB would line up on the edge, but no LSU WR is really any kind of threat to break or allude LB tackles in the open field right now. So you almost have to put a RB there.
That leaves one WR slot, if you don't march up there with any WR besides possibly Shep, and you keep JJ, I still contend it isn't a good enough decoy to not put Lafell or RR in.
Posted on 3/29/09 at 3:36 pm to SlowFlowPro
I think the answer to this question is who do you think is most dangerous and that guy should be at QB.
Some dumbasses here think that's a stupid question though...
Some dumbasses here think that's a stupid question though...
Posted on 3/29/09 at 3:51 pm to Tigercat
quote:
The most common single-wing setup:
the general wild-x set up
5 OL, 1 TE. dickson
QB - splits out wide on the stong side. JJ
RB1 - moves to QB. shep
RB2 - moves to slot (motion man). he's alone on the weakside by himself. calhoun/KW.
then you have 2 WR options. sometimes 1 WR becomes a TE and lines up behind the OT/TE/RB on the strongside. then you have 1 real WR. lafell (inside) and TT (outside, inside of JJ). or lafell outside and scott inside
there's always, at least 1 "real" WR
and there are a number of plays that can be run with these players that are not wildx. we only have 1 TE
shotgun with 2 backs (shep and scott/calhoun), 1 TE, 2 WR. or have shep in the slot as a WR
shite have a shotgun formation with the wild-x sweep man and shep both running sweeps opposite of each other and crossing at the QB
Posted on 3/29/09 at 3:52 pm to SlowFlowPro
I'd like to see D Peterson worked in the second TE position.
Posted on 3/29/09 at 3:54 pm to Dodd
as i was writing that i was thinking that, but who knows if he can block. we know lafell can block
it's kind of weird to think that we have 1 TE and 1 FB now. if either goes down our offense is goin to be weird
also, we may not have a center who can handle shotgun snaps, which would SEVERELY limit our offense
it's kind of weird to think that we have 1 TE and 1 FB now. if either goes down our offense is goin to be weird
also, we may not have a center who can handle shotgun snaps, which would SEVERELY limit our offense
Posted on 3/29/09 at 4:02 pm to SlowFlowPro
My thoughts on Wild X:
1. Its proven effective on EVERY Level if the team has the correct talent. I'm tired of hearing that this gimmicky stuff will get figured out.
2. I think it should be used for 5-15 snaps a game (depending on the situations, effectiveness, score, etc..)
3. I think it will be MOST effective if some players play multiple roles (ie JJ at QB and WR, Shep at QB and slot, KW at QB or slot or RB, Randle at QB and WR)
I just love the idea of Defenses not knowing that the Wild X is happening until the slot guys goes into motion. That my friends is a defensive nightmare....
1. Its proven effective on EVERY Level if the team has the correct talent. I'm tired of hearing that this gimmicky stuff will get figured out.
2. I think it should be used for 5-15 snaps a game (depending on the situations, effectiveness, score, etc..)
3. I think it will be MOST effective if some players play multiple roles (ie JJ at QB and WR, Shep at QB and slot, KW at QB or slot or RB, Randle at QB and WR)
I just love the idea of Defenses not knowing that the Wild X is happening until the slot guys goes into motion. That my friends is a defensive nightmare....
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