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re: Head coach winning percentages
Posted on 8/23/10 at 10:36 am to Nuts4LSU
Posted on 8/23/10 at 10:36 am to Nuts4LSU
quote:
One of those teams played a 12-game regular season schedule. The extra game makes 9 wins the new 8 wins...the bare minimum that an elite program should win except in the rarest and downest of down years.
All of that might be true if we played in the WAC or the ACC or the Big East or the Big 10 or the Pac 10, but we don't.
We play in the SEC which has had 4 different members win the BCS NC enroute to a 6-0 BCS CG record. In all BCS bowl games, the SEC is 14-5. No other major conference is anywhere close to the winning percentage of the SEC in BCS bowls and 6 different members have won BCS bowls. The most of any conference.
The SEC is the best and most completive football conference in college football. When you go 5-3 in the SEC or win 9 games while playing in it, you have done well and have no reason not to hold up your head. imo
2
Posted on 8/23/10 at 10:41 am to Lonnie4LSU
quote:
All of that might be true if we played in the WAC or the ACC or the Big East or the Big 10 or the Pac 10, but we don't.
We play in the SEC which has had 4 different members win the BCS NC enroute to a 6-0 BCS CG record. In all BCS bowl games, the SEC is 14-5. No other major conference is anywhere close to the winning percentage of the SEC in BCS bowls and 6 different members have won BCS bowls. The most of any conference.
The SEC is the best and most completive football conference in college football. When you go 5-3 in the SEC or win 9 games while playing in it, you have done well and have no reason not to hold up your head. imo
It's all about the head coach. When Saban goes 9-4 they'll make excuses for him all day long...when Miles goes 9-4 its all his fault. There are no other explanations
This post was edited on 8/23/10 at 11:26 am
Posted on 8/23/10 at 11:37 am to Choctaw
quote:It will all depend on the circumstances however I am sure there will be Alabama fans will want him gone
When Saban goes 9-4 they'll make excuses for him all day long.
quote:There are, in 08 I think Miles had a pass due to what happened with the QB's. However, last year he deserves more blame for what happened. He had 2 QB's with game experience, he had an experienced line, he had a defense.
when Miles goes 9-4 its all his fault. There are no other explanations
Personally I think when he saw the offense struggling he should have taken more control over it. Les is old school and wants to run the ball, that was ineffective due to offensive line, Les a former offensive lineman should have noticed that and made the necessary changes.
I do place more blame on him for the struggles of last year. I do not blame him for the Alabama/Florida/Penn State games, I do however blame him for the Ole Miss loss.
Posted on 8/23/10 at 11:38 am to tduecen
quote:
I do place more blame on him for the struggles of last year. I do not blame him for the Alabama/Florida/Penn State games, I do however blame him for the Ole Miss loss.
This.
Finally you bring some worthwhile discussion. About time
Posted on 8/23/10 at 11:39 am to tduecen
quote:
It will all depend on the circumstances however I am sure there will be Alabama fans will want him gone
Im talking about 2004
quote:
I do place more blame on him for the struggles of last year. I do not blame him for the Alabama/Florida/Penn State games, I do however blame him for the Ole Miss loss.
I agree completely.
Posted on 8/23/10 at 11:48 am to Choctaw
quote:
Im talking about 2004
04 QB situation was so much like 08 in no QB really took control, and it was not like the bottom completely fell out. Like I posted the other day the offense regressed from 31 to 38 and the defense from 1 to 3. The teams we lost to all finished in the Top 10 and there was only the blowout to Georgia. Which I have said time and time again was Sabans fault for not having team better prepared. I have no problem with a L because sometimes the other team is just better, I just do not want to be blown out.
This post was edited on 8/23/10 at 11:51 am
Posted on 8/23/10 at 12:04 pm to Choctaw
quote:
When Saban goes 9-4 they'll make excuses for him all day long...when Miles goes 9-4 its all his fault.
For some yes, for others (like you it seems) do the opposite. Circumstances and where you are matters you CAN NOT just look at the total # of wins and say its the same, because every situation is different. LSU going 8-5 in 2000 is NOT the same as going 8-4 in 2009. Not because of who the coach was, but because of where the program was at the time. The overall play of the team matters. The cumulative total of the coaches decisions matters. Every coach loses games, no one (rational) is expecting the team to win every game 56-0. No one (rational) expects the coach to never make a mistake. There is a really simple standard. When Nick Saban was at LSU he was persuade by at least 2 NFL teams. While in the NFL a major college team went after him. How many people have looked at hiring Les Miles from LSU? MAYBE Michigan and that's it. But if you want to believe that because both Saban and Miles won NC and had 9 wins years they are the same, well go ahead.
Posted on 8/23/10 at 12:12 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
For some yes, for others (like you it seems) do the opposite. Circumstances and where you are matters you CAN NOT just look at the total # of wins and say its the same, because every situation is different. LSU going 8-5 in 2000 is NOT the same as going 8-4 in 2009
You're right...thats why i used '04 and '09...because the talent levels and situations are very similar.
quote:
There is a really simple standard. When Nick Saban was at LSU he was persuade by at least 2 NFL teams. While in the NFL a major college team went after him. How many people have looked at hiring Les Miles from LSU? MAYBE Michigan and that's it. But if you want to believe that because both Saban and Miles won NC and had 9 wins years they are the same, well go ahead.
I hate it when people use this argument because its just not a good way to judge how good a coach is. For example...How many NFL teams have gone after Mack Brown?
And i've never said Saban and Miles are the same...ive never even said Miles was a better coach than Saban. I just get disgusted by the constant cocksucking given to a man that left 6 YEARS AGO and doesn't give a shite about LSU or Baton Rouge. Its frickin' sad and pathetic.
This post was edited on 8/23/10 at 12:13 pm
Posted on 8/23/10 at 12:14 pm to Choctaw
quote:More when he was younger and at North Carolina and early years at Texas. Now not so much just like Joe Pa and Bobby Bowden at a certain age NFL quits calling.
How many NFL teams have gone after Mack Brown?
Posted on 8/23/10 at 12:18 pm to tduecen
quote:
More when he was younger and at North Carolina and early years at Texas. Now not so much just like Joe Pa and Bobby Bowden at a certain age NFL quits calling.
He's only 2 years older than Miles
This post was edited on 8/23/10 at 12:19 pm
Posted on 8/23/10 at 12:21 pm to Choctaw
And Les won't have the NFL calling I mean the guy is 58 (Brown) the NFL doesn't really want a guy pushing 60 coaching. That is why I do not think the NFL will come calling for Saban again because of age.
Posted on 8/23/10 at 12:29 pm to Lonnie4LSU
quote:
We play in the SEC which has had 4 different members win the BCS NC enroute to a 6-0 BCS CG record. In all BCS bowl games, the SEC is 14-5. No other major conference is anywhere close to the winning percentage of the SEC in BCS bowls and 6 different members have won BCS bowls. The most of any conference.
Which is why it's not unacceptable, though also not "successful", to lose 4 games in a season while playing in the SEC. We usually play four weaker OOC teams, at least three weaker SEC teams (sometimes 4), and at most five (sometimes 4) SEC teams with similar situations that we have. If we beat the weaker teams, and even just one out of five (or none out of 4) of the comparable teams, then win a minor bowl, that's 9 wins. I don't see that as anything special.
quote:
All of that might be true if we played in the WAC
If we played in the WAC, losing more than one conference game would be a disgrace.
quote:
or the ACC or the Big East or the Big 10 or the Pac 10,
In those conferences, two conference losses should be the most we'd normally have, occasionally three in a bad year.
In the SEC three or four losses should be the most we ever have. With three, we should usually win 10 games on the season. With four, we should still win 9. And that's when we lose the MOST we should ever lose, which isn't being successful.
No matter how you slice it, 9 wins is not a very good season for a program in LSU's position any more. It was better in the past, when we only played 11 regular season games, but now it's just not a very good season, and certainly not anything an elite program should consider a success. I doubt anyone at Florida considers 2007 a success.
Posted on 8/23/10 at 12:49 pm to DunbartonTiger
quote:
Never said saban wasn't a good coach...said he has basically had less that 5 very good seasons in 25 years
Where do you keep getting this 25 years? His college head coaching career is 14 seasons (compared to 9 for Miles). The NFL is a completely different ball game, so it's ridiculous to lump that in with his college career.
In 14 years of college coaching, compared to Miles' 9 (55% more years), he has...
Won four times as many conference championships as Miles (3 SEC and 1 MAC to 1 SEC),
Won twice as many national championships as Miles (2 to 1),
Had 5 top ten finishes (to Miles' 3),
Won his division of the SEC 4 times (to Miles' 2),
Won 3 BCS bowls (to Miles' 2),
Posted a better SEC record than Miles (50-18 <.735> to 28-14 <.667>), and
Posted a better overall career coaching record than Miles (124-50-1 <.711> to 79-36 <.687>).
And all of this is in spite of having to rebuild every program he's ever coached (except Toledo) while Miles was handed an already-built powerhouse at which he has spent the majority of his career.
Again, you seem determined to make this a Saban-Miles argument for reasons unknown, but there is no real debate or comparison between them. Saban is better, hands down. The numbers are pretty clear, especially taken in the context of where the programs were when they took them over. And that's less than two weeks before a season in which Saban has the consensus preseason #1 team and favorite to win the NC while Miles has a team picked 3rd or 4th in the SEC West.
This post was edited on 8/23/10 at 12:56 pm
Posted on 8/23/10 at 1:32 pm to Nuts4LSU
quote:
And all of this is in spite of having to rebuild every program he's ever coached (except Toledo)
that's not accurate at all. Nick did a fine job coming into LSU but his first two seasons he went: 18-7 with two bowl victories, one BCS bowl victory, one SECW championship, one SEC championship,all with about 90% of the players that counted being Dinardo recruits.
That does not equate to rebuilding. Made the team better, definitely.
Posted on 8/23/10 at 1:36 pm to DunbartonTiger
quote:
what have you done for me lately? if that isthe case then frick saban huh? him andhis 13 preseason all sec players in 2004....and we finish like 17th in the nation....lol.....oh my, 17th in the nation with THIRTEEN first and second team media all sec preseasonpicks......of course, either his talent was overrated,orhis coaching was overrated that year...one of the two right? losers
does this post come with a decoder ring?
Posted on 8/23/10 at 6:17 pm to Nuts4LSU
quote:
it's not unacceptable, though also not "successful", to lose 4 games in a season while playing in the SEC
Losing one game is not acceptable, but it is understandable when: We play in the SEC which has had 4 different members win the BCS NC enroute to a 6-0 BCS CG record. In all BCS bowl games, the SEC is 14-5. No other major conference is anywhere close to the winning percentage of the SEC in BCS bowls and 6 different members have won BCS bowls. The most of any conference.
Bama had 4 L's in 06 and 07, Auburn did it in 07, 08, and 09, Rebs did in 05, 06, 07, 08, and 09, Miss. St did it in 05, 06, 06, 08, and 09, Tenn did it in 05,06, 07, 08, and 09, So. Carol. did it in 05, 06, 07, 08, and 09, Ga did it in 06 and 09, and Fla. did it in 07.
I'm not "happy" to lose 4 games, but I'm not gonna run around proclaiming that the sky is falling after a 9 win season, a 3rd place finish in the SEC, a Capital One invite, and a national ranking either. If you want to, knock yourself out.
Posted on 8/23/10 at 7:25 pm to Nuts4LSU
quote:
But who cares anyway? If Saban had played the 2009 schedule in 2004 and only won 9 games, then he would have had an unsuccessful season, too.
If all it takes to win 9 games is break even in your conference, beat some weak OOC teams and win a minor bowl, then it's nothing to brag about or call "successful".
BOOOOMMMMMMMMMMM
Posted on 8/23/10 at 7:28 pm to Nuts4LSU
quote:
Where do you keep getting this 25 years? His college head coaching career is 14 seasons (compared to 9 for Miles). The NFL is a completely different ball game, so it's ridiculous to lump that in with his college career.
In 14 years of college coaching, compared to Miles' 9 (55% more years), he has...
Won four times as many conference championships as Miles (3 SEC and 1 MAC to 1 SEC),
Won twice as many national championships as Miles (2 to 1),
Had 5 top ten finishes (to Miles' 3),
Won his division of the SEC 4 times (to Miles' 2),
Won 3 BCS bowls (to Miles' 2),
Posted a better SEC record than Miles (50-18 <.735> to 28-14 <.667>), and
Posted a better overall career coaching record than Miles (124-50-1 <.711> to 79-36 <.687>).
And all of this is in spite of having to rebuild every program he's ever coached (except Toledo) while Miles was handed an already-built powerhouse at which he has spent the majority of his career.
Again, you seem determined to make this a Saban-Miles argument for reasons unknown, but there is no real debate or comparison between them. Saban is better, hands down. The numbers are pretty clear, especially taken in the context of where the programs were when they took them over. And that's less than two weeks before a season in which Saban has the consensus preseason #1 team and favorite to win the NC while Miles has a team picked 3rd or 4th in the SEC West.
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BOOOM! BOOOMMMMMM Shut them down Nuts. Kick them AGAIN! F these little bitches that are arguing this point. You are da man!
This post was edited on 8/23/10 at 8:19 pm
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