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Message
re: Hannigrif says Orgeron made Canada makes changes by game 3.
Posted on 5/29/19 at 12:11 pm to TigerLunatik
Posted on 5/29/19 at 12:11 pm to TigerLunatik
quote:
Yes. (This is a general statement to all) there was no way Canada could be allowed to stay on staff after being openly defiant and in a demonstrative way in front of the players the way that it was reported on radio. I don't care if he thought Coach O was dead wrong, you can't do that shite
Nick Saban has an abrasive personality. You think Alabama should fire him? Dana Holgorsen has an abrasive personality as well. I think West Virginia would be so much better off without him. Don't you? They were powerhouse before he arrived.
Obviously, I'm being sarcastic.
My point was, when you're running a company or sports team or whatever organization it might be, you want the best people with the best skill set. If you can't work through your personal differences you're never going to be successful. When somebody is really good at their job and their job isn't customer service, it shouldn't matter how big of an a-hole they are as long as they produce in their specific area of expertise.
This is LSU football. Not the Rosy Finch Boyz Club. They don't have to be friends and go have beers and barbecue after work. Their job is to win. I don't give a frick if they like each other.
This post was edited on 5/29/19 at 12:13 pm
1
Posted on 5/29/19 at 12:14 pm to Buckeye Jeaux
quote:
Kind of like when someone accuses an LSU player of having multiple run-ins with the law involving guns and drugs? Why no need for "documentation" or a "link" in that case?
Not familiar with that.
I'm talking about an unsubstantiated bogus claim on THIS thread. The one that la_birdman made. The false claim that O stabbed Miles in the back
He's bringing up something from another thread that another poster made the accusation and because I said that I believe it he somehow thinks I made the accusation. I've shown him to be wrong in another thread but he just keeps on following me around with it.
Posted on 5/29/19 at 12:18 pm to bencoleman
quote:
He's bringing up something from another thread that another poster made the accusation and because I said that I believe it he somehow thinks I made the accusation
It's cute how you won't respond directly to me. I posted a direct quote from you in that thread and you just can't take it. You didn't need a link to run with and help spread a nasty rumor about a college kid, but a rumor about Ed O needs peer-reviewed primary source documentation, multiple verifications, etc.
I still think you're a good guy, Ben, and I really do wish you the best.
Posted on 5/29/19 at 12:19 pm to MightyYat
You're totally missing the point but I don't think that's on accident as I don't think you're a dumb person.
Will a CEO get involved? Of course. By asking his subordinates what they need to do a better job. "How can I facilitate you to do your job?" Only after he's done everything to enable his workers to perform yet they still fail, should he make the move to fire them. At no point should he be dictating to people in skilled positions specifically how to perform their duties.
A business major isn't going to tell an engineer how to do engineering.
According to your logic Joe alleva should have been dictating to Ed Orgeron who to hire and which players to recruit and how to use them. Oh wait, he was. And that's why he's shite canned now and considered one of the worst ADs LSU has ever had and a terrible manager.
Will a CEO get involved? Of course. By asking his subordinates what they need to do a better job. "How can I facilitate you to do your job?" Only after he's done everything to enable his workers to perform yet they still fail, should he make the move to fire them. At no point should he be dictating to people in skilled positions specifically how to perform their duties.
A business major isn't going to tell an engineer how to do engineering.
According to your logic Joe alleva should have been dictating to Ed Orgeron who to hire and which players to recruit and how to use them. Oh wait, he was. And that's why he's shite canned now and considered one of the worst ADs LSU has ever had and a terrible manager.
This post was edited on 5/29/19 at 12:22 pm
Posted on 5/29/19 at 12:22 pm to nola000
quote:
Nick Saban has an abrasive personality. You think Alabama should fire him? Dana Holgorsen has an abrasive personality as well. I think West Virginia would be so much better off without him. Don't you? They were powerhouse before he arrived.
Both head coaches not an assistant like Canada so I have no idea what point you're trying to make.
quote:
This is LSU football. Not the Rosy Finch Boyz Club. They don't have to be friends and go have beers and barbecue after work. Their job is to win. I don't give a frick if they like each other.
I don't care either, but the assistant coach can't run around the practice field be openly insubordinate to the head coach in front of the player like Canada was supposed doing.
Posted on 5/29/19 at 12:26 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
Not all of them can be blamed on presnap motions
Look through the penalties. Most were offensive.
The offense was shite the first three games.
No changes were made by game 3. I was exactly the same offense.
Posted on 5/29/19 at 12:26 pm to Le Tenia
quote:
After 3 weeks?
That's not a strong leader, that's an insecure control freak.
quote:
Sure you do if your production schedule is only 3 months long.
You're hitting on something without even realizing it.
This was actually I think part of the problem. There was a lot of pressure on Ed to produce right away because he was insecure about the position he held because let's be honest, he didn't deserve to be head coach at LSU. Now, he might earn it, but at the time he certainly didn't deserve it. The position was too big for him and the pressure was too high. As soon as any adversity appeared he fell back into his old micromanaging ways that he swore he grew out of. It was a specific stipulation for his hire and he failed to meet it right off the bat.
You can't teach an old dog new tricks. But that doesn't mean the old dog can't fake it for a little while.
Posted on 5/29/19 at 12:27 pm to Goldrush25
quote:
Or maybe understand that when you're doing something new like installing a new scheme that there will be some bleeding regardless.
Yet, strangely the plethora of penalties slowed after State.
Posted on 5/29/19 at 12:28 pm to Damone
quote:
For that matter, how does a holding penalty or personal foul committed by the offense?
Of the five offensive penalties in the first half of the first game, 4 were motion or illegal shifts.
Posted on 5/29/19 at 12:31 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Yet, strangely the plethora of penalties slowed after State.
I'm not going to do the research, but doesn't that seem like a normal progression for any team? That the number of penalties will decrease as the learn a new offense as the year goes on?
Posted on 5/29/19 at 12:32 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Of the five offensive penalties in the first half of the first game, 4 were motion or illegal shifts.
Okay... they won that game handily. The point is that some are using alleged penalties as a justification for O getting involved in Canada's offense, when the effect of said alleges penalties is overblown.
This post was edited on 5/29/19 at 1:19 pm
Posted on 5/29/19 at 12:32 pm to TigerLunatik
if anybody thought that was matt's full offense after watching him at pitt is clueless not to mention O's other meddling in troy and UF games. i laid it out many times as did others here. we never saw the throw back screen to TE among other things off the jet sweep. imagine if we had burrow running zone reads in that offense. WOW.
Posted on 5/29/19 at 12:32 pm to nola000
quote:
A business major isn't going to tell an engineer how to do engineering.
What did Orgeron tell Canada to do?
I've yet to see one piece of solid evidence either way.
Was the offense dramatically different at the end of the season from the beginning?
Posted on 5/29/19 at 12:33 pm to TigerLunatik
quote:
I don't care either, but the assistant coach can't run around the practice field be openly insubordinate to the head coach in front of the player like Canada was supposed doing.
That's one way of looking at it, that Canada was a man out of control.
Another way of looking at it is maybe the HC doesn't know how to control aggressive personalities. I mean look at the personalities on his current staff. Ensminger and Aranda are both low key type of guys that aren't known for having dominant personalities.
On the other hand, you look at someone like Saban who's had every type of personality work under him and work well. He's had guys like Muschamp, Jimbo, Dooley, Kiffin, Kirby Smart, Cristobal. People can say what they want about him but he's created a lot of leaders. That's why so many of them have gotten HC jobs. The coach here wants followers, and I think he prefers it that way.
This post was edited on 5/29/19 at 12:35 pm
Posted on 5/29/19 at 12:34 pm to TigerLunatik
quote:
Both head coaches not an assistant like Canada so I have no idea what point you're trying to make
The point I was trying to make is, if you're good at your job you get a long leash. 'Personal differences' are just an excuse to shite can somebody you either don't like or as an out in an at-will State to get rid of somebody who's underperforming.
quote:
I don't care either, but the assistant coach can't run around the practice field be openly insubordinate to the head coach in front of the player like Canada was supposed doing.
Sure they can. Somebody who has a healthy ego and is secure in their manhood doesn't mind their insubordinates challenging them. It can make everybody better. If your players or workers think that means they don't have to listen to you, then you can rain down Thunder on them and remind them who's boss. Ultimately you still have the power to hire, fire and bench people.
The workers and players who see that and understand it will respect you even more as a boss after that because they know that they can have a bad day and it's not taken personal or that they can come at you with concerns and voice their displeasure without being the recipient of juvenile retribution.
Pressure cookers make diamonds.
I've been in plenty of work environments that were comfortable and friendly where everybody got along. You know what happens on the business end? Apathy and complacency. When you're comfortable you get lazy.
This post was edited on 5/29/19 at 12:37 pm
Posted on 5/29/19 at 12:35 pm to dgnx6
quote:
It was a dumb hire.
nah u just dumb son
O shoulda let him do his thing
END THREAD
Posted on 5/29/19 at 12:36 pm to Goldrush25
quote:
That's one way of looking at it, that Canada was a man out of control.
Where is Canada right now?
Posted on 5/29/19 at 12:39 pm to Goldrush25
quote:
That's one way of looking at it, that Canada was a man out of control.
Another way of looking at it is maybe the HC doesn't know how to control aggressive personalities. I mean look at the personalities on his current staff. Ensminger and Aranda are both low key type of guys that aren't known for having dominant personalities.
On the other hand, you look at someone like Saban who's had every type of personality work under him and work well. He's had guys like Muschamp, Jimbo, Dooley, Kiffin, Kirby Smart, Cristobal. People can say what they want about him but he's created a lot of leaders. That's why so many of them have gotten HC jobs. The coach here wants followers, and I think he prefers it that way.
This.
Posted on 5/29/19 at 12:39 pm to nola000
quote:
You're totally missing the point but I don't think that's on accident as I don't think you're a dumb person
You're all over the place. The CEO or HC should have total autonomy over the day-to-day operations to include handling any subordinate, directly or indirectly, to ensure that the product and team goals are being met. This includes inserting themselves in the "engineering dept." regardless of them being an actual "engineer".
To think that a CEO/HC with over 30 years in the business, and trained under some of the best CEO/HC along the way, would not know all the working parts of the business is foolish and absurd.
Posted on 5/29/19 at 12:40 pm to TigerLunatik
Miles was fired because of the lack of offensive production so when Orgeron was hired, I think he felt like he needed to make a splash with hiring the O coordinator so he went to the hottest name available. That kept the LSU fan base happy through the first 3 games in.. What was that? 2017?
Canada's offense is/was too gimicky for the SEC. All of that shifting.. Jet sweep bullshite.
Not sure why this is such a big deal to you now.
Canada's offense is/was too gimicky for the SEC. All of that shifting.. Jet sweep bullshite.
Not sure why this is such a big deal to you now.
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