re: “George Pickens is much more talented than Justin Jefferson”

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Based on what exactly? Explain what is more talented about Pickens than Jefferson.

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Hands and strength. Through their first and potentially second years of college, the list was hands + strength + size + speed. Jefferson made up those last two by combine time and had also added an all-pro savvy for positioning + route running.

Since speed and weight can be developed with pure effort, most intelligent discussion of these traits concedes that talent disparities are the major determinant of potential, which is always going to be a major topic of interest with young players.

That’s all there is to it I knew acknowledging Jefferson’s single Pickens-caliber spectacular catch would be too shiny for the obtuse to resist but figured I’d let it be a teaching moment.

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Man y’all leave Ryan Clark alone. Everyone knows he is retarded, you should make fun of ppl with mental issues

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the dude is the simple Jack of ESPN

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At the end of the day you are judged by your production so who gives a shite about his opinion

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Key word. Production. There have been a ton of "talented" players that have washed out.

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This. Calling one more talented than the other is just his opinion. There were a lot of QBs you could say were "more talented" than guys like Brees/Brady. At the end of the day you are judged by your production so who gives a shite about his opinion lol. Show me the stats.

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Except JJ is like Mahomes. He has the measurables and the production

I’ve watched them both for years and love scouting/profiling football players. Odell never had a great drop rate but was among the most talented catchers in recent memory (because there is more to catch rate than “talent”). Pickens has spectacular catch/catch radius ability that Jefferson doesn’t, despite his larger hands and wingspan. It’s a natural trait that Pickens has at an elite, perhaps unmatched, level. He also has elite press/blocking strength, especially for his size. Jefferson can’t bench press DBs like Pickens can.

If you had to choose to have lunch with Ryan Clark or Tim Brando, who would you choose and why.

Well yeah. We’re talking about talent, a notoriously non-quantified entity

Why do you think measurables = talent? When Bonds juiced, did he get more talented? If you say yes, then we’re just working with different definitions and I’d argue yours is so unconventional as to be useless in this conversation.

ETA: I have zero agenda against Jefferson. Before the combine, I argued that his long arms and slight frame gave him an uncommon agility/catch radius combination and maybe that could explain his success in relation to what everyone expected to be average explosiveness marks. Then he ran a 4.4 and jumped out the gym and we all realized he was a filthy athlete whose smoothness has us fooled! But Pickens has been a fun follow since HS because of rare talent, most of which being his hand strength in contorted/stretched positions. I’m not doing gymnastics to defend RC, whose takes I couldn’t give a shite about — I’m apparently trying to define “talent” for a board who mistakes it for some combination of production and measurables.

Talent with minimal productivity vs talented with epic productivity. That’s where we currently stand.

That’s probably true to a large extent. Pickens probably resorts to circus plays when Jefferson would’ve solved the body geometry problem earlier.

To refine my stance further, I’d take Pickens over Jefferson if I needed to film a circus catch or have my WR run block. Both of those I attribute to Pickens’ relative talent (not his Jugs reps or weight room discipline).