re: "Game Managers" Do Not Win Championships

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Sure he did, managed down and distance. Made good decisions with the ball, made all his reads. That is basically what all GOOD option QBs do

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he also ran a 4.45 40 and busted many big plays

something not ALL option QBs do

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Problem. Your post belongs in the thread called "Bad Quarterbacks" Do Not Win Championships

This thread is, "Game Managers" Do Not Win Championships

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game managers aren't asked to do much, but are relatively efficient when asked to perform

if you want to call that a "bad" quarterback, then that's your perrogative

he defined them well

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Eric Crouch.



option QB in a weak year

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But we have firmly established that if you are a Heisman finalist, and a quarterback, you are indeed a playmaker.

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But we have firmly established that if you are a Heisman finalist, and a quarterback, you are indeed a playmaker.

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crouch did make a bunch of big plays

he's an option QB though, you can't use passing QB stats to compare him

what caveats? boeckman was not used as a game manager. he threw the ball a ton, and threw it deep all the time

he was just not a good QB

and crouch rushed for over 1,000 yards as a QB. since he ran the option, you have to look at what he did. what did he do? run the ball. did he do this outstandingly? yes.

how the hell could you ever call crouch a game manager when the team relied on his play to win games

a game manager is a QB that you DO NOT rely on to win games. he's not good enough to rely on. his role is just to not make mistakes in his limited opportunities.

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What an arse! See the following definition of "game manager"

Game Manager- one who is not the star on a team, but rather is expected to lead his team, not make mistakes.

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See list of Game managers:
Mauck

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You just disproved your theory with your 1st name.

Mauck made TONS of mistakes, mostly in big games as well.

Mauck was the exactly opposite of a game manager.

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however, if you're a heisman finalist, you are not a game manager

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I don't see how a QB can be looked at as a game manager because he does nothing but throw short slants and WR screens that go for 4 or 5 yards, but the same QB is automatically not a game manager if the exact same passes are consistently turned into 30 or 40 yard gains and 40+ TDs because they WRs are all-world.

The stats kept in record books will never reliably define whether a QB is used as a "game manager" or not. The bubble screen that a WR breaks for a 60 yard TD looks exactly the same as the 60 yard deep post to the endzone. But a whole lot of QBs that are counted on to throw the bubble screen would not be counted on to throw the deep strike. Keiland's long TD run against Auburn in 2007 went into the books as a 46 yard TD pass by Flynn. But it was nowhere near the "playmaker" kind of play that JaMarcus' 39 yard TD vs. Arizona State was.

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game managers aren't asked to do much, but are relatively efficient when asked to perform

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And how would they manage to perform efficiently when they are described as not having good arms or quick legs? If they efficiently complete their passes, wouldn't that mean they have a good arm? Or is a "good arm" only one that can consistently hit long bombs? Because if so, there are a TON of QBs who just got bumped from the "playmaker" category because their stats and big plays were made largely on short passing games and big YAC plays by receivers.

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But what makes him "good" as a game manager is he doesn't make many mistakes. He'll also make a big play here and there when the team needs it. See, Craig Krentsel, perfect example.

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I guess the question I have is if Krentzel were exactly the same QB that threw a TD about once every 5 trips into the redzone, but his offense made 10 redzone trips per game giving him 26 TD passes on the season, would that change his status as a "game manager"?

I ask because I think the question in the OP suffers from a problem of perspective. Many teams begin each season with what would be regarded as "game managers" (the way Carl, et al, are using the term). Sometimes, those teams end up winning the National Championship. In order to win a National Championship, however, just about every aspect of your team has to be succesful (even a "game manager" QB). When looked at retrospectively -- as the OP does -- this makes the "game managers" seem like "playmakers" because the success around them combined with their occasional need to make plays creates an impression of playmaking that exceeds the nature of the player. In an effective and high scoring offense, even a "game manager" type QB will throw a pretty good number of TDs.

For example: In 2007 Matt Flynn threw 21 TDs, not even good enough to make the top 3 at LSU, despite leading by far the most prolific scoring offense in LSU history. Of the 64 TDs scored by that offense, he was involved in less than 40% of them, including his rushing TDs (by comparison, Krenzel had a hand in 33% of OSU's 2002 scores). He averaged less than 12 yards per completion, and barely 200 passing yards -- less than 220 total yards -- per game, and accounted for 42.6% of LSU's total offense while having a hand in 43.5% of our plays (Krenzel accounted for 48.6% of OSU's yardage in '02 while having a hand in 39.5% of plays). As for mistakes, Flynn was picked off 11 times in 359 attempts for an INT rate of 3.1% (Krenzel 7 times in 259 attempts for 2.7%).

So was Flynn a playmaker that threw a lot of TDs because his playmaking ability was the focal point of the offense? Or was he more of a game manager that got a lot of TD passes because his offense got a ton of cracks at the endzone plus he had a lot of playmakers turning his easy passes into big scores?

Obviously, the reality is somewhere in between and far more complicated than we could ever hope to fully dissect here. But it should at least be acknowleged that simply saying, "he threw a bunch of TDs, he can't be a game manager," is far too simplistic an answer. Given that Krenzel is the "perfect example" of a game manager, and his statistical signficance to their offense was VERY comparable to Flynn's, it is far from an obvious absolute that Flynn was "not a 'game manager.'"