re: Did Ben show enough tonight to lock up the 1st pick?

For goodness sake, he is not just being drafted as some project with potential. Sure, he isn't finished developing and he hasn't tapped into his full potential, but he is averaging 20-12-5 as a 18/19 year old. He is being drafted number 1 based off of potential and performance. Our fans at like he is some Lithuanian playing 5 minutes a game and averaging 2 points.

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Shaq as a freshman

13.9 points
12.0 rebounds
55% free throw

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Context, please.

When Shaq was a freshman, we had Chris Jackson and Stanley Roberts on the team.

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The argument was that Simmons doesn't take over games like Shaq. Saying Shaq deferred to teammates doesn't help prove that argument.

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As a freshman, Shaq deferred to a 2-time SEC Player of the Year and a 2-time first-team All-American who could score points by the bushel. And he had another very good 7-footer playing next to him.

That's a lot different than Simmons deferring to others on this roster.

He'll go #1 because he has the requisite tools, not because of performance. The NBA has been doing this for years; it's the reason Tyrus Thomas went in the top 4, the reason Darko Milicic did too. Every team is jumping over each other trying to find the next body, and hoping the person inside that body grows up to be "the man". If they could draft a 14 yr old, they would. Since Simmons is 6'10 and has coordination, some team will take him, over a guy that is already a better player, because of the projected max potential.
Most of the time, this ends up failing, but hey, "he got paid".

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That's a lot different than Simmons deferring to others on this roster.

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You people need to make up your damn mind. You can't fault him for deferring to others when they're open AND fault him for not taking over games at the end AND fault him for a lousy jump shot. You want to fault him for two of the three, fine, but it can't be all three.

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He'll go #1 because he has the requisite tools, not because of performance. The NBA has been doing this for years

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Newsflash, every league has been doing this for years. It is the same reason a guy like Troy Smith and Eric Crouch can win the Heisman and then struggle to stay on an NFL roster.

Another newsflash, it is the right way to go. Without a doubt in my mind most on this board would take Jimmer Fredette over Simmons if they were an NBA GM. They'd field a team full of guys with "hustle", "heart", and "competitive drive", and they'd get fricking blasted by NBA teams with actual NBA talent.

Here is something to chew on:

Per 40 minute #s:

22.3 points, 13.6 reb, 5.7 ast, 2.0 stl, 1.1 blk, 3.6 turnovers with a 56.5% FG% and 60.2% TS%

19.5 points, 12.7 reb, 2.1 ast, .9 stl, 4.3 blk, 2.6 turnovers with a 56.6% FG% and 62.7% TS%

Both are freshman stats of 1-and-done players. One of those is Ben Simmons and the other is Karl-Anthony Towns, the guy putting up one of the most historic rookie seasons in NBA history.

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22.3 points, 13.6 reb, 5.7 ast, 2.0 stl, 1.1 blk, 3.6 turnovers with a 56.5% FG% and 60.2% TS%
19.5 points, 12.7 reb, 2.1 ast, .9 stl, 4.3 blk, 2.6 turnovers with a 56.6% FG% and 62.7% TS%

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Who cares about objective, measurable data? Flawed, arbitrary subjective analysis rules the roost here buddy!

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His biggest problem is that he cannot or will not take over a game like Shaq would

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Shaq could dominate a game because he was bigger and stronger than everyone on the court. It's much more obvious when the 7'1" 285lb guy is dominating a game because he had players hanging on his back while he was pulling down rims. And he was getting fouled in the process. Shaq is a former college POY and an NBA HOF player. Think about who you are comparing him to and the different skills that each have/had.

Shaq's Fr stats - ~14/pts ~12/Rebs ~3.5/blk ~2ast
BS's Fr stats - ~20/pts ~12/rebs ~ ~1/blk ~5/ast

The stats show that they are 2 different players but +/- as freshmen. The key difference was that Shaq also impacted the game by defending the rim and altering many shots. Shaq was clearly more dominant on defense and that is what this teams needs. Shaq also had a pretty good guard (CJ) during his freshman year so he didn't need to score so much.

I forget...how many games did we lose that year with CJ's offense and Shaq's defense? Simmons could average 32pt/18rb/8ast/2blk and we'd still lose games without 5 players contributing.

In another 2 years, I could actually see BS having ridiculous stats like 30pt/16rb/8ast/2blk. We know what Shaq did as a Soph & Jr so how can anyone compare those two.