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Message
re: B.R. Morning Advocate sports, LSU no. 6 nationally, suddenly QB talent flocking to LSU
Posted on 6/23/18 at 6:13 pm to TrueTigerTale
Posted on 6/23/18 at 6:13 pm to TrueTigerTale
quote:So, now LSU has quickly returned to the Miles "Square Peg-Round Hole" QB recruiting scenario.
Morning Advocate - Suddenly, quarterbacks are flocking to LSU. Highly regarded dual-threat quarterback Peter Parrish from Phenix City (Alabama) Central announced his commitment Friday morning.
I thought Orgeron and Ensminger wanted only Pro-Style Passing QB's.
So, what's up with the offers to the "Dual-Threat Glorified Running Backs?" (Sanders/Parrish)
Do they (O/E) even know what kind of Offense they want to run and/or the type of QB to run it?
Parrish = State of Alabama QB with no Bama or Auburn offer. Why not? That's all I need to know.
LSU comes running to pick up the scraps. Anthony Jennings 2.0. (No Georgia or Ga. Tech offer)
It just keeps getting better.
This post was edited on 6/23/18 at 6:22 pm
2
Posted on 6/23/18 at 6:19 pm to BearCrocs
I agree....LSU has recruited some fine prospects at QB but they have done a terrible job in developing them...
Jamarcus Russell had the talent but he was lazy
Jamarcus Russell had the talent but he was lazy
Posted on 6/23/18 at 6:40 pm to Goldrush25
quote:
Maybe he was honest with those recruits in telling them he had a HC that neither was knowledgeable or supportive of his philosophy
So you're saying that he was incompetent and worked against his own program.
Posted on 6/23/18 at 7:00 pm to semjase
quote:
Parrish = State of Alabama QB with no Bama or Auburn offer. Why not? That's all I need to know.
LSU comes running to pick up the scraps. Anthony Jennings 2.0. (No Georgia or Ga. Tech offer)
It just keeps getting better
You should really do even just a little research before typing stupidity. It's been covered on this board so it's pretty obvious to everyone you don't have a clue or a valid opinion. But it doesn't stop you from giving what may possibly be the stupidest one in the thread.
Here is a little something to help you out:
Do a search for "Bear Bryant" on this board. You will find all the information you obviously have no clue about in any thread about QB's started in the last 24 hours with that name in it.
Good luck !!!
ETA: I tried the search and the thread must be gone.
So here it is:
Bama has a commitment from Bear Bryant's grandson who is a 4-star QB rated as the 12th best by 24/7. Bama also has a commitment from Tua's brother. Tua is the QB that played the 2nd half of the National Championship game and basically won the game for them. His brother is also rated as a 4-star and the 7th best in the nation by 24/7.
Auburn has a commitment from Bo Nix - the #1 DUAL QB in the nation according to 24/7.
This post was edited on 6/23/18 at 7:13 pm
Posted on 6/23/18 at 7:09 pm to Tiger Ree
quote:
Last year, when hiring Lane Kiffin fell through, Alleva and other powerbrokers made it clear to Orgeron that they expected another big name. Enter the Matt Canada fiasco — and that’s not a bad word to use.
Basically, once the work became serious, Canada became a problem for virtually everybody in the LSU Ops Building to work with. Dave Aranda, in particular, very much wanted him gone. It wasn’t about philosophy or jet sweeps or motions so much as it was just a basic working relationship and trust
So Canada was basically forced on O and turned out to be a horses arse.
Posted on 6/23/18 at 7:14 pm to TrueTigerTale
Tells me the recruits, especially QBs, are seeing something in the new offense that they like
Posted on 6/23/18 at 7:15 pm to bencoleman
quote:
So Canada was basically forced on O and turned out to be a horses arse.
Pretty much. All the crying around here since December of last year by some for absolutely nothing. Today has been a really enjoyable day.
Posted on 6/23/18 at 7:24 pm to bencoleman
quote:
So Canada was basically forced on O and turned out to be a horses arse.
No one forced Canada on O.
If O felt pressured to hire a big name after failing to deliver Kiffen like he said he would be able to, that is his weakness and inability to block out outside noise, a very important part of running a program at this level.
If he wanted E all along he should have made the move and dealt with the complaining until E rode in an put on a clinic against MSU and Troy like he apparently would have. Rest assured that would have stopped the complaining.
Even if he wasn’t strong enough to do that, no one said “Canada is the guy”. O found out about him somehow and decided to hire him. It was 100% his decision.
And he failed to see throughout the “interview” process that the guy was apparently a “horses arse” that couldn’t be counted on to get along with his co-workers on follow directions from his superiors.
All of these are major shortcomings and failures when running a program at this level.
No worries though, O always learns from his mistakes
This post was edited on 6/23/18 at 7:26 pm
Posted on 6/23/18 at 8:18 pm to semjase
quote:
Do they (O/E) even know what kind of Offense they want to run and/or the type of QB to run it?
Ed Orgeron doesn't.
"Orgeron devised a contrived offense at Ole Miss, combing parts zone-blocking with USC’s two-back system and Noel Mazzone’s passing offense. It. Did. Not. Work."
10 of the Dumbest Things Ed Orgeron Did At Ole Miss
Posted on 6/23/18 at 8:31 pm to Tiger Voodoo
quote:
No one forced Canada on O.
who was the hottest OC name in the nation besides Lane Kiffin. The guy that was the only OC nominated for the Boyles Award - Canada?
quote:
If O felt pressured to hire a big name after failing to deliver Kiffen like he said he would be able to, that is his weakness and inability to block out outside noise
Yeah, Eaux was just hired and he is not going to listen to his Boss and his Boss's bosses. Smart move for an employee. You are pretty smart. Do you disregard your bosses a lot or just once or twice a week?
quote:
weakness and inability to block out outside noise, a very important part of running a program at this level.
You sound a little biased. I can't figure out which way you are biased though. Are you for Eaux or against Eaux? (intended sarcasm here)
quote:
If he wanted E all along he should have made the move and dealt with the complaining
I don't think his bosses would complain. They would probably resolve the problem and hire someone who would listen to them.
quote:
Even if he wasn’t strong enough to do that
You make a stupid comment based on a stupid idea and stick with it. Almost have to admire that.
quote:
no one said “Canada is the guy”. O found out about him somehow
Hmmm, I wonder if it was the guy on the LSU defensive staff that had coached against Canada? The guy who had also bought a house from him? I'm curious how he magically found out about him?
quote:
And he failed to see throughout the “interview” process that the guy was apparently a “horses arse” that couldn’t be counted on to get along with his co-workers on follow directions from his superiors
Damn, Imagine that. A guy wants to get hired and doesn't come in to interviews and act like a total arse. I really can't believe that would happen. You're right about this one. There is no way Canada could have ever been on his best behavior.
quote:
All of these are major shortcomings and failures when running a program at this level
All the crap you just made up is a failure when running a program at this level. Okay, Good to know, NOT !!!
quote:
No worries though, O always learns from his mistakes
Doing what you are told by your bosses and what is suggested by the associate head coach is a mistake?
I hope you learn from your mistakes. Actually, not sure about that. I laughed at least a couple times when reading your post and then a few more while responding. Keep up the great work man !!!!
Posted on 6/23/18 at 8:50 pm to Tiger Voodoo
quote:
No one forced Canada on O
Apparently you didn't read the article. I know that O had wanted to offer Steve the job. That wasn't good enough for alleva. One way or another O felt backed into a corner with Canada and everyone ended up with a disaster at OC.
Posted on 6/23/18 at 9:05 pm to Tiger Ree
quote:
who was the hottest OC name in the nation besides Lane Kiffin. The guy that was the only OC nominated for the Boyles Award - Canada?
Is that the basis on which successful executives make hiring decisions? Buzz? Or do they actually evaluate the applicants and decide for themselves? Was Canada the first and last person O spoke to?
quote:
Yeah, Eaux was just hired and he is not going to listen to his Boss and his Boss's bosses.
Did the bosses and boss’ bosses tell him specifically to hire Canada? Was no one else an option?
Is having a HC that cant or won’t make autonomous decisions regarding his staff a good thing in your opinion?
quote:
You sound a little biased.
Because I think the head coach is responsible for the people he hires and how those hires play out?
quote:
don't think his bosses would complain. They would probably resolve the problem and hire someone who would listen to them.
You think LSU would have fired Orgeron a month after he was hired because of who he wanted as OC?
Really solid foundation for our program to be working from
quote:
You make a stupid comment based on a stupid idea and stick with it. Almost have to admire that.
You are the one insinuating Orgeron was forced into hiring an OC he wasn’t on board with. Stupid ideas abound, apparently.
quote:
Hmmm, I wonder if it was the guy on the LSU defensive staff that had coached against Canada? The guy who had also bought a house from him? I'm curious how he magically found out about him?
Did that guy not mention that Canada is also apparently impossible to work with?? Or was that not the case in their previous coaching stop together?
quote:
Imagine that. A guy wants to get hired and doesn't come in to interviews and act like a total arse. I really can't believe that would happen. You're right about this one. There is no way Canada could have ever been on his best behavior.
Discerning interviewers can see through an act like that. There is also contacting previous employers and coworkers. It’s called due diligence. I know that’s a foreign concept in our athletic department lately, but you should look it up sometime.
quote:
All the crap you just made up is a failure when running a program at this level. Okay, Good to know, NOT !!!
Clever, NOT !!! Who talks like this?
quote:
Doing what you are told by your bosses and what is suggested by the associate head coach is a mistake?
What was O told by his bosses, exactly?
Are you saying hiring Canada was not a mistake? Was it a success?
quote:
hope you learn from your mistakes. Actually, not sure about that. I laughed at least a couple times when reading your post and then a few more while responding. Keep up the great work man !!!!
You are almost universally regarded as paid comic relief on this board, so keep up the entertaining work yourself
Posted on 6/23/18 at 9:13 pm to bencoleman
quote:
Apparently you didn't read the article.
First off, that’s ATVS, basically a fricking blog. Billy Gomilla, while I usually enjoy his writing, doesn’t know first hand what went on behind the scenes.
Even if he did, this:
quote:
Last year, when hiring Lane Kiffin fell through, Alleva and other powerbrokers made it clear to Orgeron that they expected another big name.
Does not equal Canada being forced on O. There are plenty of other big names out there. O didn’t bother interviewing them or did and chose Canada instead. He is responsible. Period.
And how do you reconcile that with this, from the same article?:
quote:
Ed Orgeron is calling this shot. This is what he wants. Nobody has tied his hands regarding money, at least not yet, and nobody has told him who he can and cannot hire.
Why the difference in approach last year and this year? Again, O wasn’t getting fired a month after getting the fricking job because “his bosses” wanted a big name OC.
This post was edited on 6/23/18 at 9:19 pm
Posted on 6/23/18 at 9:19 pm to Tiger Voodoo
quote:
Is that the basis on which successful executives make hiring decisions?
If all of your bosses demand you hire a "big name" and the biggest name has history with your DC/Associate head coach and is recommended you seriously consider it. If your top offensive recruits including both QB's threaten to look elsewhere not knowing who will be the OC or the offense you consider it. It's not like he had months to make a decision.
quote:
Was Canada the first and last person O spoke to?
I don't know. Do you?
quote:
Did the bosses and boss’ bosses tell him specifically to hire Canada? Was no one else an option?
They said they wanted a "big name". What other big names would you have spoken to? Is the only offensive Broyles Award candidate not a big name.
quote:
Is having a HC that cant or won’t make autonomous decisions regarding his staff a good thing in your opinion?
You think not listening to advice from others is a good thing? DC/associate HC recommends a guy. You need to hire someone quickly to keep the class intact and you disrespect him and go after who? What was another big name OC that would have left for LSU at that time?
quote:
Because I think the head coach is responsible for the people he hires and how those hires play out?
Not a bad belief at all. But even if you believe the Canada hire was bad at the time, remember we are talking in retrospect now, do you then think it was the first and only bad hire ever made in football or is your bias towards the LSU head coach showing?
to be continued.
Posted on 6/23/18 at 9:45 pm to Tiger Ree
quote:
If all of your bosses demand you hire a "big name" and the biggest name has history with your DC/Associate head coach and is recommended you seriously consider it.
If the hire is for an offensive coordinator for an SEC football program, and my “bosses” are university board members that have little to no experience or understanding about football, no, I think I would tell them I am the football coach they hired and will make the football decisions because I know more than they do about football.
If they don’t like it, then yeah feel free to fire me a month after hiring me and see how that plays on ESPN.
quote:
If your top offensive recruits including both QB's threaten to look elsewhere not knowing who will be the OC or the offense you consider it. It's not like he had months to make a decision.
Well they both did look elsewhere when I decided to offer another QB I had no shot at, so yeah why not take some time to make sure that I get the right guy to fix what has been broken for almost a decade with the team I’m taking over.
quote:
Was Canada the first and last person O spoke to?
I don't know. Do you?
Well if he was the only person interviewed, that is a ridiculous way to make such a huge decision.
If he wasn’t, then O chose the wrong person from a field of candidates based on how it played out and I question his interview capabilities going forward.
Either way, it reflects poorly on O.
quote:
They said they wanted a "big name". What other big names would you have spoken to? Is the only offensive Broyles Award candidate not a big name.
Have they never given the Broyles Award before that season? Call every OC nominated for the past decade.
Look up the top 25 offenses in the country and call every OC on the list.
Again, it’s called due diligence. It’s quite important when making a hire of that magnitude.
quote:
DC/associate HC recommends a guy.
Link?
So Aranda loved the guy at Wisconsin and hated him a month after he got here? Ensminger better watch his step apparently, since Aranda recommended him as well
Is O ever going to make his own decision on an OC btw, or is this always going to be an Aranda thing?
quote:
But even if you believe the Canada hire was bad at the time, remember we are talking in retrospect now, do you then think it was the first and only bad hire ever made in football or is your bias towards the LSU head coach showing?
It doesn’t matter what I believed about the hire at the time. I’m not the one charged with making the decision so I’m not going to do the due diligence that O should.
Plenty of bad hires made all the time. This is the only one that I can recall being blamed on the DC, the AD, and the boss’ bosses, though. Everyone but the HC apparently.
And yeah, those bad hires, they often lead to the people that hired them losing their jobs.
And like you quoted me, the head coach is responsible for the hires they make and how those hires play out.
Where is the bias?
quote:
to be continued.
On the edge of my seat
This post was edited on 6/23/18 at 9:48 pm
Posted on 6/23/18 at 9:53 pm to Tiger Voodoo
quote:
You think LSU would have fired Orgeron a month after he was hired because of who he wanted as OC?
You think they would tell him what they wanted done and he would not do it? Do you not do what your bosses want?
quote:
Really solid foundation for our program to be working from
If the head coach doesn't listen to his bosses does it mean the assistant coaches don't have to listen to him? Do the players have to listen the head and assistant coaches? Yeah, LSU the only college football program that does not listen to their superiors. Great example and start of total chaos.
quote:
You are the one insinuating Orgeron was forced into hiring an OC he wasn’t on board with
Where did I say he was not onboard with Canada?
quote:
Stupid ideas abound, apparently.
When you make shite up, apparently they do. "Hmmm, you said this and it was stupid". Only minor problem in the idiotic statement is no one ever said what you are accusing them of. Uh Oh, wrench thrown in the middle of a perfectly good lie.
quote:
Did that guy not mention that Canada is also apparently impossible to work with??
How close does a DC work with an opponents OC when preparing to play each other? I'm sure you think they game plan, go to lunch and share notes together but I don't think it really happens that way.
Guy wants to sell you his house so of course he is going to be a horses arse towards you. Oh, and he already live in North Carolina preparing for the coming season and the house is in Wisconsin. Do you even see him?
quote:
Or was that not the case in their previous coaching stop together?
I wasn't aware of them ever coaching together. Want to inform me and the people who may read this thread, exactly where this occurred? Thanks !!!
quote:
Discerning interviewers can see through an act like that
I have heard that head coaches of college football programs are some of the most discerning interviewers in the world. I think it was on 60 minutes or I may have read in Kiplinger's.
quote:
There is also contacting previous employers and coworkers. It’s called due diligence.
There was not much in Canada's past to raise red flags. What would have alarmed you? Maybe they should have called Saban and asked his opinion.
quote:
What was O told by his bosses, exactly?
Damn dude, I was not there. Everything I know of the situation was quoted in my post on this page or the previous one with the link to the article. Look at it.
quote:
Are you saying hiring Canada was not a mistake? Was it a success?
When he was hired, did you say "Oh shite, not Matt Canada who last season was the only offensive Broyles Award candidate AND the only OC to beat Clemson in their one-loss national championship season? Oh hell NEAUX !!! Huh, did you say that or something similar?
I think at the time and under the circumstances it was a decent hire at the very least.
Here's another article for you to read. Do you think they called Eaux and got a job reference. They should have contacted you, so you could have set them straight.
After a quick search, Maryland hires Matt Canada as offensive coordinator
Posted on 6/23/18 at 10:10 pm to Tiger Voodoo
quote:
If he wasn’t, then O chose the wrong person from a field of candidates based on how it played out and I question his interview capabilities going forward.
Either way, it reflects poorly on O.
Yep, this is all easy to say NOW and puff your chest out while saying it. What did you say about the hire when it happened? Were you calling for Canada's head. Were you bashing Eaux for making the hire - actually I'm sure you were.
It's easy to be the expert in retrospect isn't it?
Eaux did what his bosses told him they wanted and what his associate HC recommended. I don't know how badly that reflects on Eaux.
He corrected the situation and has had 3 QB's commit in just over a month. I think everyone besides you and other idiot Rantards are very happy right now.
quote:
Have they never given the Broyles Award before that season? Call every OC nominated for the past decade.
Ha Ha, yeah sure - call Tom Herman and offer the new UT coach a job as your OC. Funny !!!!
quote:
Again, it’s called due diligence. It’s quite important when making a hire of that magnitude
Why again, I read it the first time. It's obvious that you, in retrospect with all of your great knowledge, think it was a bad hire under the circumstances. Even if it was, this is not the first hire ever made in history that did not work out.
quote:
So Aranda loved the guy at Wisconsin and hated him a month after he got here?
did they ever lay eyes on each other in Wisconsin?
quote:
Ensminger better watch his step apparently, since Aranda recommended him as well
Well if you are going to make shite up about Wisconsin, WHY stop there, huh???
quote:
Is O ever going to make his own decision on an OC btw, or is this always going to be an Aranda thing?
No Sharon Lewis gets the next OC hire. Then Corey Raymond I believe or it may possibly be Meatball.
quote:
It doesn’t matter what I believed about the hire at the time. I’m not the one charged with making the decision so I’m not going to do the due diligence that O should.
So you just wait until a year later to bitch about it and confess to how much better you would have handled the situation. Makes sense to me. You?
quote:
Plenty of bad hires made all the time. This is the only one that I can recall being blamed on the DC
So at the time it occurred you thought it was a bad hire? Any posts to back that up? Or are you just attacking Eaux in retrospect AFTER knowing the result a year later?
Posted on 6/23/18 at 10:18 pm to Tiger Ree
quote:
Are you for Eaux or against Eaux?
He's for LSU. Who are you for?
Posted on 6/23/18 at 10:27 pm to Tiger Ree
quote:
You think they would tell him what they wanted done and he would not do it? Do you not do what your bosses want?
If I’m a lawyer, and my client, who doesn’t know shite about the law, tells me to do something against my better judgment, no, I would not.
If I am a football coach, and a university administrator who doesn’t know shite about football tells me to do something my football acumen knows isn’t best for my team, no, I would not.
That’s actually what I’m being paid for. My expertise in my field.
quote:
If the head coach doesn't listen to his bosses does it mean the assistant coaches don't have to listen to him?
No, it doesn’t mean that at all.
quote:
Do the players have to listen the head and assistant coaches?
Yes. Of course they do.
quote:
Yeah, LSU the only college football program that does not listen to their superiors. Great example and start of total chaos.
What a silly exercise you did there
quote:
Where did I say he was not onboard with Canada?
Your post from this thread in response to bencoleman:
quote:
quote: So Canada was basically forced on O and turned out to be a horses arse.
Pretty much.
quote:
When you make shite up, apparently they do. "Hmmm, you said this and it was stupid". Only minor problem in the idiotic statement is no one ever said what you are accusing them of. Uh Oh, wrench thrown in the middle of a perfectly good lie.
A mess of a paragraph, but again, when asked if Canada was forced on O, you replied “Pretty much”.
A wrench thrown in the middle of a perfectly good lie!!! (Again, who talks like this
) quote:
How close does a DC work with an opponents OC when preparing to play each other?
quote:
I wasn't aware of them ever coaching together. Want to inform me and the people who may read this thread, exactly where this occurred? Thanks !!!
My apologies, you said coached against, I thought you said coached with.
I assumed there was an overlap at Wisconsin I wasn’t previously aware of
quote:
Guy wants to sell you his house so of course he is going to be a horses arse towards you. Oh, and he already live in North Carolina preparing for the coming season and the house is in Wisconsin. Do you even see him?
So O is hiring guys based on recommendations from people that bought houses from the guy and coached one game against him five years before??
quote:
I have heard that head coaches of college football programs are some of the most discerning interviewers in the world. I think it was on 60 minutes or I may have read in Kiplinger's.
So I take it from your sarcasm that in your opinion interviewing and evaluating coordinators is not a major need for a HC when that HC has never been a coordinator before himself and will depend almost entirely on those coordinators to run his offense and defense?
quote:
There was not much in Canada's past to raise red flags.
So the guy was almost immediately “impossible to work with” yet there hadn’t been issues with him before at any other stop?
quote:
quote: What was O told by his bosses, exactly?
Damn dude, I was not there.
And yet you speak on what he was told from his bosses and DC as though you were. Or as if the writer of that article was.
quote:
I think at the time and under the circumstances it was a decent hire at the very least.
I wouldn’t have disagreed at the time.
Although neither you nor I were the person charged with doing the due diligence to find out if he was a good fit on our team and in our building.
As fans, we can look at numbers and say this looks great. The HC simply can’t. More is expected of him obviously.
The hire was obviously a failure. It is a mark against O. Plain and simple.
I have high hopes for E and love him as a firmer Tiger.
I truly wish O had simply done it last year if it is really what he thought was best for the team. That’s what great coaches and true leaders are supposed to do.
Posted on 6/23/18 at 10:30 pm to Tiger Voodoo
quote:
If he wasn’t, then O chose the wrong person from a field of candidates based on how it played out and I question his interview capabilities going forward. Either way, it reflects poorly on O..
Hindsight is 20/20. Apparently Canada gets hired often and does not stay very long anywhere. My point is, O isn't the only coach being "fooled" by him.
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