re: Beating Bama will impact their program

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like losing to UAB

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One thing I have to wonder about when Alabama fans mention this as some kind of parallel with Saban's first year at LSU is why they don't notice this obvious difference...

When LSU lost to UAB in 2000, we immediately bounced back to beat Tennessee the next week, went on to win six of our last eight games, including wins over ranked opponents Mississippi State and Georgia Tech (the highest ranked team that any SEC team beat that season, according to final polls).

When Alabama lost to ULM in 2007, they were mired in, and continued to be mired in, a losing streak. They followed up the ULM debacle with yet another loss to Auburn, then, with a month to get ready, barely slipped past an absolutely awful Colorado team.

Of course, it also bears noting that Saban's first LSU team went 8-4, won the Peach Bowl over Georgia Tech and finished ranked in the top 25 (in one poll), while his first Michigan State team finished 6-5-1 after an Independence Bowl loss to LSU, lost to 4-5-2 Wisconsin, tied 4-6-1 Purdue and got no votes in the final polls.

So, you have a 7-6 season with an Independence Bowl win over a terrible Colorado team, an ugly loss to ULM, four losses in the last five games and no votes in the final polls to compare to one of two other seasons:

8-4, Peach Bowl win over #17* Georgia Tech, ugly loss to 7-4 UAB, four wins in last five games and #22 final ranking;

or

6-5-1, Independence bowl loss to #24* LSU, ugly loss to 4-5-2 Wisconsin and tie with 4-6-1 Purdue, three losses in last five games and no votes in final poll.

Which one is more similar?

* denotes final poll rankings

By the way, those who notice that his first Alabama season has resembled his first Michigan State season much more than his first LSU season may be interested to know that here is how his years at Michigan State stacked up:

6-5-1
6-6
7-5
6-6
9-2 (Won Capital One Bowl after he resigned)

So, grats in advance on that 9-win Capital One Bowl season in 2011, Bammers!

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They weren't good enough to win big anywhere in football . . . except at LSU,

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This is what you said that sparked most of this debate. None really won BIG at LSU either. Archer's 8-4 SECC team isn't what I would call winning BIG. And none have been thought highly enough to be hired anywhere else(except Dinardo at Indiana). Excuse me if I'm not impressed with as you call it these coaches successes at LSU.

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Because only one of them has ever got a head coaching job after LSU fired them for being miserable failures, and that was at,,,Indiana.
Dinardo got hired at a no win situation in Indiana.
None of the others that were fired, and were talking Dinardo, Hallman, Stoval, and Archer, were given the opportunity to fail(other than Dinardo at Indiana) at other schools.

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But DiNardo -- like both Miles and Saban -- had also been a head coach before LSU, and never achieved the kind of success in those pre-LSU years that he did while at LSU.

Also, Dietzel had the opportunity to coach after LSU, and -- again -- never had the kind of success he had while at LSU.

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It could be argued that LSU ruined their careers.

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Except for the fact that none of their careers -- besides Hallman's -- were as successful anywhere as they were at LSU. Bottom line, there was only one place Archer, DiNardo or Stovall were ever likely to have successful seasons, and that was at LSU. The fact that they were not good enough to sustain success, even at LSU, does not change the fact that LSU has an almost unblemished history of being the most successful stop in a football head coaching career.

However, if a coach were to, say, post multiple 10-win seasons, go an entire 5 year tenure winning at least 8 games a season, win multiple SEC Championships and a National Championship, then -- at his very next college coaching job -- suffer his first 6 loss season, fail to win 8 games for the first time in 6 seasons, and never win another SEC or National Title, then that program might be said to have ruined his career. So far, that program is not LSU.

Nuts4LSU, you bring it and bring it. Thank you for using such forgotten relics, facts, to prove a point. Your posts are anti-ranter and I commend you for it.

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I missed the part where he called it "the biggest mistake of his career" in the link. He does say something vague about making a mistake, so I guess we can all draw our own conclusions.

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Yeah.....vague?

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Tidesports.com
Chris Walsh, Sports Writer
Saban: Leaving LSU for Dolphins job a mistake

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Very vague.

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“When we left LSU it wasn’t personal. We thought it was professional. We learned about ourselves, made a mistake in terms of what we did, in terms of what we want to do, where we feel we should be, and you can’t go back.”

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He himself admits said mistake.

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He continued: “I mean there was no opportunity for me to go back to LSU. This was a great opportunity that we had at the University of Alabama. We chose it. It wasn’t personal. It wasn’t meant to harm anyone at LSU.”

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And admits that he at least would have considered returning.

Most small mistakes pass. The "big" ones turn into something we like to call regret. I'd say open regret about a major life decision would classify as a "big" mistake. Does this make any more sense to you now? Where's the interpretation I'm failing to see?

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Y'all have bet $32 million that it was the coach THIS time. That's why y'all are gumps.

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He himself admits said mistake

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Yes it was his mistake and a blessing for LSU. I was disappointed a little when he left, but not crushed. Seriously. The guy is a "good" coach. However, he is a surly bastard too. His unapproachable style wore on my nerves but the coaching gaffs were worse. Now the Alabama media gets to deal with his attitude and mistakes.

If the chips fall right, they might have a couple of stellar seasons with him as coach. That is a big if.

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Wow. I guess their is more than one way to look at this, and before you hired Saban,

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I havent been involved in the prior conversation, but the obvious way to look at it is that the success they did have at LSU was mainly due to the resources (talent) and facilities that LSU offered. Over time, the fact that they were in over their heads came to the surface. Time will tell the story of how successful the coach is imo.

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Dinardo, coached at Vandy before LSU, a no win situation, then Indiana after LSU, another no win situation. He is the only one by your words that LSU made a success, that has even been a headcoach since his LSU disaster. The only one that (out of Dinardo, Stoval, Hallman, and Archer) was also a head coach before was Hallman, which you say was a better coach before he got to LSU if you go by his record. The other 2 have never been head coaches again. If LSU made them successful, why were they fired, and why aren't they head coaches somewhere else today? They all had lots of potential, coach LSU, and then crash and burn at LSU. Wow. I guess their is more than one way to look at this, and before you hired Saban, I seem to remember most of college football seeing it very differently than the new revised edition. snicker.

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alright the "snicker." at the end of your post is just gay. Moving on...

Stovall really shouldn't be counted because of what happened to Bo Rein. they brought Stovall in because it was too late to hire a real coach. You could spin him either way because he totally lucked into the job because of Bo's death and yet he still went to two major bowls. anyway lets just not count him.

Neither Archer nor Dinardo were good coaches, and LSU is totally at fault for hiring those two to run their program. Neither had done anything to merit being the head coach at LSU, we hired them anyway. Nevertheless, it's fair to say that LSU has several advantages that most other schools (Bama included) don't have, which led to them having some success prior to their dismissal, success they probably wouldn't have had at other schools.

Hallman was a gump who lucked into Brett Favre.

Being the only big boy in a talent rich state that loves College Football is what makes LSU an easier place to win than other SEC schools that have many more natural recruiting rivals or reside in states with significantly less local talent. Anyone who tries to deny that doesn't know what they are talking about.

Les leaving Ok St for LSU could have been a mistake too. Had LSU lost a few games it should have won, Les could have been without a job. Winning 8 games a year at Ok St would keep Les employed forever.

Taking a new job regardless of what it is can be risky. Nick needs to grow a pair and let the past be the past.

Nick was a better than average coach at Mich St
a good coach at LSU, a poor coach at Miami and so far an average coach at Bama. It is what it is.