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Started By
Message
re: A 21 million dollar buyout..
Posted on 9/10/21 at 2:07 pm to RB10
Posted on 9/10/21 at 2:07 pm to RB10
quote:
You think a program like LSU's would write up a contract where their only termination options would be major scandal?
No. And I did not imply that. I'm saying they will likely pay him in full. If you are suggesting they would have had an "out" so they could easily term him for cause then I'll say again that it's possible, but I doubt it.
I've negotiated at least 20 of these, and the only ones I was able to get lots of latitude for cause were either those who were negotiating from an extremely weak position or those without legal council.
3
Posted on 9/10/21 at 2:10 pm to SammyTiger
The whole notion behind employment agreements is that the employer pay a certain amount for services by the employee for the entire term. If the contract is terminated early, the employee seeks payment for the whole term, without providing any services after the termination. Particularly, when bad performance damages the employer, this seems inequitable and finders of fact, judges and juries, often welcome theories to reduce the employer's exposure. And the employee can get new employment and double-dip, which may also seem unfair. Experienced lawyers for both employees and employers know this. That's why these things are usually negotiated.
One problem here is that O is unlikely to ever be offered a HC job again.
One problem here is that O is unlikely to ever be offered a HC job again.
Posted on 9/10/21 at 2:11 pm to Penrod
quote:
egal council
It’s legal counsel, not council
Odd mistake for someone claiming to be an attorney
Posted on 9/10/21 at 2:11 pm to Penrod
quote:
No. And I did not imply that.
quote:
Does O's? I doubt it. If not, they need a serious crime, like a felony. And not an allegation, a conviction.
Yes, you did.
quote:
I'm saying they will likely pay him in full. If you are suggesting they would have had an "out" so they could easily term him for cause then I'll say again that it's possible, but I doubt it.
How often do fired coaches actually get paid in full? Don't answer because I already know. Very rarely.
quote:
I've negotiated at least 20 of these, and the only ones I was able to get lots of latitude for cause were either those who were negotiating from an extremely weak position or those without legal council.
You've negotiated generic employment contracts or high level P5 football contracts?
ETA: Don't bother answering. You've already been exposed so I'm not going to bother doing it myself.
This post was edited on 9/10/21 at 2:13 pm
Posted on 9/10/21 at 2:11 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
1. The AD is sabotaging him
What I can gather the wheels have been in motion for some time. (?)
quote:
We can’t do better and he was the only coach who would coach here.
I don't think people were lining up here, but I also thought he was really the only one that could do it anyway. (that's just my take) All of that is immaterial now though.
quote:
We can’t pay his whole buyout
I don't know but Woodward is on the hook for literally $25-30m once you factor in Bo. That isn't a good look.
quote:
We can’t try and negotiate the buyout either.
The negotiate amount is in the contract, you either elect to pay the contract or not. The whole ace in the back pocket doesn't really work.
They can fire for cause the whole ace in the back pocket is how people get into even bigger problems, maybe LSU hasn't learned yet though.
This post was edited on 9/10/21 at 2:15 pm
Posted on 9/10/21 at 2:12 pm to Rosenblatt
quote:
It’s legal counsel, not council
Odd mistake for someone claiming to be an attorney
I didn't catch that. Dude is full of shite.
Posted on 9/10/21 at 2:17 pm to GeauxFightingTigers1
quote:
What I can gather the wheels have been in motion for some time. (?)
OR o has never been a great coach. That’s also an option.
quote:
I don't think people were lining up here, but I also thought he was really the only one that could do it anyway. (that's just my take) All of that is immaterial now though.
Who knows who was lining up Alleva has said he wanted O. And the only one who could do what? Win at LSU?
quote:
I don't know but Woodward is on the hook for literally $25-30m once you factor in Bo. That isn't a good look.
Do the math for him being on the hook for 30.
quote:
The negotiate amount is in the contract, you either elect to pay the contract or not. The whole ace in the back pocket doesn't really work.
Or you negotiate a lump sum payment like we did with Bo and Les.
quote:
They can fire for cause the whole ace in the back pocket is how people get into even bigger problems, maybe LSU hasn't learned yet though.
I dont Think we have an ace in the back pocket, but you do understand the benefit of having money now vs taking it over time
Right?
To fire O for cause now something new would have to Come out and I agree That would likely be pretty bad for LSU.
This post was edited on 9/10/21 at 2:20 pm
Posted on 9/10/21 at 2:18 pm to RB10
Almost as bad as the other legal expert who doesn’t know the difference between then and than, but he understands how complex legal agreements work and how they are typically resolved in these cases.
Right lol.
Right lol.
Posted on 9/10/21 at 2:26 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
Or you negotiate a lump sum payment like we did with Bo and Les.
Yeah, you can reduce the amount, but it really isn't... meaning you are giving them money in one payment.
Les had an offset, my reading of Ed's extension is there is no offset, however, State law might have something in it... there is a statement to that in the original contract.
LSU saved primarily because Les got another job, the final settlement was to make it easier for both parties to function and not have to figure out the offset every month.
Ed could negotiate a lump sum, sure, but LSU really isn't saving... not really. Do you want to get paid 1.00 over 12 months or .90 today?
LSU saved money on Les because Kansas picked up the liability, which was in Les's original contract i.e. offset.
Ed I don't think has an offset, but even if he did is he ever going to make a significant amount again? Probably not at 60. LSU saved a few bucks on Les probably not going to happen on Ed.
Bo Pelini got probably the best deal in college football history. (maybe not in dollar terms, but in value and the whole thing)
If you figure the time he spent in Baton Rouge, and the buyout and salary... he was probably the highest paid State employee per second and its not even close.
This post was edited on 9/10/21 at 2:35 pm
Posted on 9/10/21 at 3:19 pm to GeauxFightingTigers1
So essentially you’re saying LSU can’t do better than Ed Orgeron?
Or even if we can we should just stick with what we’ve seen the last 18 months because it’s expensive to do anything?
Are you factoring in the opportunity cost of not moving on?
Or even if we can we should just stick with what we’ve seen the last 18 months because it’s expensive to do anything?
Are you factoring in the opportunity cost of not moving on?
Posted on 9/10/21 at 3:21 pm to Draconian Sanctions
When you consider what we pay O, the buyout isn’t bad.
He makes 9 mill a year off base salary and media deals. The buyout is less than 50% of that. So we save something like 4.8 mill a year firing him.
That’s a full contract.
He makes 9 mill a year off base salary and media deals. The buyout is less than 50% of that. So we save something like 4.8 mill a year firing him.
That’s a full contract.
This post was edited on 9/10/21 at 3:24 pm
Posted on 9/10/21 at 3:23 pm to SammyTiger
Also plenty of coaches have been fired for cause and didn’t have trouble bringing in replacements
Posted on 9/10/21 at 3:23 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
Are you factoring in the opportunity cost of not moving on?
You're talking to someone who continues to misuse "than" rather than "then", even though it's been pointed out to them.
Opportunity cost is about 8 grade levels above his understanding.
Posted on 9/10/21 at 3:41 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
So essentially you’re saying LSU can’t do better than Ed Orgeron?
Or even if we can we should just stick with what we’ve seen the last 18 months because it’s expensive to do anything?
Are you factoring in the opportunity cost of not moving on?
I thought Ed was the right guy for the job and realistically the only guy to do the job in 2016. That doesn't mean he will be able to do the job forever.
Its all a difficult question(s) for me, as I'm not a huge mega-college sport guy. I actually find some of this obscene to a degree i.e. big money college sports.
I'm not saying Ed shouldn't be fired (or at some point), but all of this kind of stinks right now. Its hard to say I am a LSU fan. Losing is fine, a bunch of administrators acting like assholes to me isn't.
The administration is probably wishing for losses at this point, so why in the hell should anyone care?
Tennessee got in their situation by going down similar routes, imo, there are no guarantees to success but this doesn't look good like a good path.
Just my take.
This post was edited on 9/10/21 at 3:43 pm
Posted on 9/10/21 at 3:44 pm to RB10
quote:
You're talking to someone who continues to misuse "than" rather than "then", even though it's been pointed out to them.
Opportunity cost is about 8 grade levels above his understanding.
I use "think" instead of "thing" or the other way around as well. You're just going to have to get use to it... I type real fast as well.
I can spell ORANGE though.
Posted on 9/10/21 at 3:46 pm to GeauxFightingTigers1
quote:
I use "think" instead of "thing" or the other way around as well. You're just going to have to get use to it... I type real fast as well.
Yeah, we already know you're stupid.
Posted on 9/10/21 at 3:48 pm to RB10
quote:
Yeah, we already know you're stupid.
That's a cool story bro.
Posted on 9/10/21 at 3:49 pm to Penrod
You're a lawyer and you don't know the difference between "legal council" and "legal counsel"?
Posted on 9/10/21 at 3:50 pm to GeauxFightingTigers1
quote:
I'm not saying Ed shouldn't be fired (or at some point), but all of this kind of stinks right now. Its hard to say I am a LSU fan. Losing is fine, a bunch of administrators acting like assholes to me isn't.
I mean Objectively losing is bad when it comes to a college football team.
What have the admins done to act like assholes?
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