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re: 2004
Posted on 11/16/09 at 6:19 pm to noonan
Posted on 11/16/09 at 6:19 pm to noonan
quote:
you underestimate the power of saban. the mere fact that he would be taking over bama a few years later already made them a better coached team.
therefor, the close game is more of a testament to how amazing saban is.
Also, Texas is clearly benefitting from the fact that Saban recruited Colt McCoy 5 years ago. And where would Florida be if Saint Nick hadn't actually been in the same room with Tebow on at least one occasion. Saban's greatness penetrates by osmosis.
0
Posted on 11/16/09 at 6:19 pm to drizztiger
quote:seems like you used 16 games because it casts the worst light on the program. next year will it make more sense to use the last 18, 20, 22 games or will you still use 16?
They all represent trends. I use the last 16 games because it equates to two full SEC schedules.
Posted on 11/16/09 at 6:20 pm to deSandman
quote:
But stop yearning for the return of some imaginary period of complete and utter dominance in the past. It never happened.
I have been trying to say this for a while. People's perception of Saban's time here just doesn't match up with the reality.
Posted on 11/16/09 at 6:52 pm to drexyl
quote:
next year will it make more sense to use the last 18, 20, 22 games or will you still use 16?
I am more than fine to use the last 16 games next year also. I think you are confused, thinking I have an agenda. If we're at the end of next season and in the last 16 SEC games, LSU is 14-2, I wouldn't be happier. But if we're 8-8, I certainly won't choose to ignore it.
This post was edited on 11/16/09 at 6:53 pm
Posted on 11/16/09 at 6:53 pm to drizztiger
quote:
I can follow your low triple digit IQ just fine
Wow, resorting to ad hominem attacks instead of the argument at hand shows sooooo much intelligence.
My post was regarding a comparison of seasons, most specifically 2008 and 2009 both being considered "mediocre". You changed the argument to the last 16 SEC games. This thread is discussing seasons as a whole, not SEC game equivalencies.
And even if it were (Yes, I'm biting), you would have to compare the most recent 8 SEC games against the 8 games preceding those to support that that both of the last two seasons, individually, were mediocre. Meaning that one was mediocre in itself, and then the other was also mediocre. So, over the last 16 games, LSU went 3-5 in the first 8, and 5-3 in the most recent 8. I would say that your self proclaimed "sample size" (of 8 SEC games equaling one season) would show that there is improvement. AND by definition, 5-3 is not mediocre because every season, regardless of who wins what, the average SEC record will always be 4-4.
You can change the argument all you want to make yourself appear right, but that does not make any statement pertaining to the original argument incorrect.
So, again, the issue at hand that I responded to was a statement claiming that the CURRENT SEASON 2009 is mediocre. Using objective measurements (Win/Loss Records), this season is not mediocre. Using your subjective crap like "LSU has played mediocre this season", is absurd/ridiculous/illogical.
Posted on 11/16/09 at 7:06 pm to Tigrus Maximus
quote:
Using objective measurements (Win/Loss Records), this season is not mediocre. Using your subjective crap like "LSU has played mediocre this season", is absurd/ridiculous/illogical.
Again, I've said numerous times by using LSU's record as criteria, then this cannot be deemed a mediocre season. If you choose to ignore that LSU has played mediocre on the field and only see the win loss record, that is your choice. It is by no means logical though.
There are many teams, programs and coaches that have had a good record yet the play on the field demonstrated that the losses were coming. Iowa is a great example from just this season.
According to your magnificent logic, if I buy a lottery ticket one time and happen to win money, I should continue to play the lottery because the result is the only thing that matters. The truth is that even though I am happy with the result, I can't expect to play against the odds and come out ahead.
Very clearly LSU has been playing poorly the last two season in general on the football field. And, yes, the result hasn't always shown that on the final scoreboard. But certainly LSU can't continue to play poorly and expect those results. It did catch up with LSU last season for a losing SEC record for the first time since 1999.
This season, LSU has escaped with quite a few wins against a relatively weak schedule. Therefore, you get your 8-2 record while I clearly see a mediocre team.
Posted on 11/16/09 at 7:14 pm to drizztiger
And I'll take 8-2 through 10 games, with losses to #1 and #2, every season regardless of how mediocre we look by some random fan's assessment.
This post was edited on 11/16/09 at 7:15 pm
Posted on 11/16/09 at 7:21 pm to Tigrus Maximus
So if we win our next two games, we will be 10-6 on the last 16 games.
Posted on 11/16/09 at 7:22 pm to Tigrus Maximus
quote:
And I'll take 8-2 through 10 games, with losses to #1 and #2, every season regardless of how mediocre we look by some random fan's assessment.
That's the issue isn't it. If those that see these glaring problems are correct in our concerns, you won't be seeing many more 8-2 seasons.
Remember that LSU is not immune to collapses in the football program or other sports and areas. In fact they're a part of LSU's history. To just be happy with the current result is to ignore the whole reason you're there.
Posted on 11/16/09 at 7:23 pm to south bama tiger
quote:
And I'll take 8-2 through 10 games, with losses to #1 and #2, every season regardless of how mediocre we look by some random fan's assessment.
No, we'll be 9-7.
Posted on 11/16/09 at 7:24 pm to Hot Carl
quote:
People's perception of Saban's time here just doesn't match up with the reality.
People's perception of LSU football doesn't match up with reality.
Yes, our traditions are great, and we're full of pride. But even in the recent championships we've won, we were not dominating anyone. Yeah, we crushed cupcakes and won some tough games, but even with Sir Saban of the Round Table, we still were never god and both times we barely made it in whether you want to believe it or not. Les Miles has kept us in 10 win seasons. You're all a bit cocky now, and you look like idiots to say that Miles should be fired.
P.S. Everyone's looked like shite this year. No one is unbeatable.
This post was edited on 11/16/09 at 7:26 pm
Posted on 11/16/09 at 7:29 pm to drizztiger
Not in comparison to my personal evaluation and expectation of the team before the season started. I thought we would go 9-3 in the regular season and would be content with that because I did not unreasonable expectations. We are in a good position to finish 9-3 or better, so I am not of the mindset that the sky is falling.
Posted on 11/16/09 at 7:36 pm to Tigrus Maximus
quote:
so I am not of the mindset that the sky is falling.
This is the real issue. Not everyone that has concerns - in fact most that have concerns - do not say the sky is falling or the wheels are coming off.
Because we see concerns - especially the mediocre play in just about every game - doesn't mean I advocate firing Miles. In fact, I have to say numerous times per day that Miles will not and should not - just to appease the reactionary name-calling simplistic fools that populate this board.
If I drive my car and notice it's over-heating, yet I arrive safely at my destination, it doesn't mean I don't need to address the issue of the car over-heating. That's what 85% of the rose colored name callers refuse to admit. Because they see the result of arriving safely, the car must be fine.
Posted on 11/16/09 at 7:39 pm to deSandman
quote:
It's fine to want better. But stop yearning for the return of some imaginary period of complete and utter dominance in the past. It never happened.
Posted on 11/16/09 at 7:43 pm to drizztiger
I agree, I just wish that people would give credit where credit is due. My biggest problem with the post I originally refuted was that they were inferring that 2009 is/will be just as bad as 2008.
Posted on 11/16/09 at 7:46 pm to deSandman
great post. i will add that MILES comes in the next yr and the rebuilding begins. that's right, he rebuit the team (even with the katrina tradegy) and wins an NC in his 3rd year. our '08 , though similar to sabans '04 and similar to meyers '07 has destroyed miles rep. with a segment of our fanbase. i think they are being very unreasonable. the man has EARNED a chance to bring us back. he's got this team improving and we need to support him and our team. he doesn't deserve the shite some of these so called fans say about him. every day, their whining gets louder. before the yr started, most folks thought 9-3 was what we were capabile of due to the QB and OL situation. that's what we are probably gonna end up too. maybe 10-2.
Posted on 11/16/09 at 7:46 pm to Tigrus Maximus
No, 2008 was a disaster. Every issue this team has is correctable by Les Miles.
This post was edited on 11/16/09 at 7:50 pm
Posted on 11/16/09 at 7:48 pm to Tiger_n_ATL
the point is, nobody called for sabans head after '04 and nobody called for sabans head after losses to uab, iowa and getting blown out and embarassed by texas.
Posted on 11/16/09 at 7:54 pm to LSU GrandDad
quote:
nobody called for sabans head after '04
That would have been strange as he already accepted the Dolphins job.
quote:
nobody called for sabans head after losses to uab
Wasn't that his 3rd game as LSU's coach? Another strange example.
quote:
iowa
Again, after he accepted Dolphins job. He never should have been allowed to coach that game. Thank Skip Bertman for that mailed-in loss.
quote:
getting blown out and embarassed by texas.
LSU was very much into that game until MR pulled up lame.
Posted on 11/16/09 at 7:59 pm to deSandman
I have not forgotten '04 nor do I espcially care for Saban but a few points to balance things out:
1) We were often "QB-less" in '04 (and yes that was Saban/Jimbo's fault). Got the feeling the coaches wanted JaMarcus to assume a leadership position but he never really did. Had Matt Mauck not left early (bad decision) I feel like we would've defeated AU; not sure 'bout UGA.
2) Had Saban chosen to stay I feel like we would've beaten Iowa.
Point being, '04 was very close to being a great team.
1) We were often "QB-less" in '04 (and yes that was Saban/Jimbo's fault). Got the feeling the coaches wanted JaMarcus to assume a leadership position but he never really did. Had Matt Mauck not left early (bad decision) I feel like we would've defeated AU; not sure 'bout UGA.
2) Had Saban chosen to stay I feel like we would've beaten Iowa.
Point being, '04 was very close to being a great team.
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