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re: With Kelvin Joseph leaving, who is left from that 2018 recruiting class contributing?
Posted on 7/17/19 at 11:55 am to Tiger Ree
Posted on 7/17/19 at 11:55 am to Tiger Ree
quote:
Oh, and I hate to break it to you, but every signee for every class for every team does not contribute or even play college football.
Go ahead and post the previous LSU class in which only about 2/3's of it remained after 1 season. Thanks.
Gee, it's almost like the weakest class we've signed recruiting ranking wise in the past upteen years also lost the most players the quickest, I wonder why that is. I know it's impossible for you to be objective about anything LSU related, but there's a reason that class was ranked so badly compared to most LSU classes - it was a weak class overall, and it makes total sense why a bunch of players are jumping ship from it - we have better players from other classes they dont want to compete with.
This post was edited on 7/17/19 at 12:00 pm
1
Posted on 7/17/19 at 12:41 pm to thunderbird1100
quote:
The 2017 class has had 2-4 guys leave, only 2 because they actually chose to do so (Ingram and Taylor up in air). So a class a YEAR older has had way less players leave, why do you think that is? It's pretty easy, the class with the weaker players saw big hits
So you are only using one class in comparison? Is the #2 2014 class weaker than 2018? The #5 and #6 classes in 2015 and 2013 were weaker than the 2018 class?
Seems like besides one class in 2017 the 2018 is stronger than any of the other recent LSU classes right? Or do you have another class to compare to 2018 that has better or stronger players?
quote:
There's starters that emerge from every class. Not sure what you're trying to get at there
That Through four games, 16 of the 25 signees had already seen the field. Seven of the signees had started in at least one game, and that number became eight when Hines57 started some games. That is not a weak class.
quote:
I hope you're not counting transfers, again we're talking about the freshmen and juco kids, the ones that actually make up the recruiting class itself.
Why did you get to set the rules of the conversation? The OP said the 2018 recruiting class and did not say "just count the players who were in high school last season before answering my question". If he did I missed it and apologize.
quote:
Transfers dont count in recruiting class,
But JUCO's do? What's the difference? Why should JUCO's count and not transfers?
The reason is because transfers have already been counted towards someone else's recruiting class and the services can't revise history years later, re-rate the player and adjust current classes.
The don't count in 24/7 recruiting class rankings but they definitely count. I saw Burrow throw touchdowns, Tracy kick field-goals and walk-on Atkins kick off through the endzone all season. Fehoko saw action for the first time last season also. It was not imagined these players suited up and played for LSU.
Whether 24/7 counts them or not for rankings purposes is irrelevant. 24/7 is giving Texas credit in the 2019 class for a 5-star WR who is enrolled at USC. Does he not count? A&M is getting credit for two 4-stars who haven't signed because they haven't qualified. Do they not count?
Joe Burrow is on the LSU team. LSU recruited him to come to LSU. Burrow talks about it at the SEC Media Days and how on his recruiting trip to LSU they were supposed to meet with Slinger for an hour to discuss the offense and they wound up meeting for 3 or 4 hours. you do realize he did not have to come to LSU right? Just like Tracy and Fehoko, they could have gone elsewhere also.
quote:
LINK /
LINK /
Do you see the transfers being counted in there? No, thanks for playing.
https://www.lsusports.net/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=5200&ATCLID=211716545
Do you see him on the LSU roster? Do you see him on the 2017 LSU roster?
From LSU Sports:
"Returns as LSU’s starting quarterback in 2019 after bursting onto the scene with an outstanding first year with the Tigers in 2018"
Oh and the links you provided are to 24/7 right? It was 24/7's article that I linked.
Guess what they say about it?
quote:
LSU's 2018 class exceeding expectations?
Then, Ohio State graduate transfer quarterback Joe Burrow signed with the Tigers.
Translation: 32-percent of the class will have made at least one start, That group includes the team’s leading passer in Burrow and leading scorer in Tracy.
Burrow has completed 52-of-106 passes for 731 yards and three touchdowns with a perfect record as a college starter. Between Burrow and freshman running back Chris Curry,
On the defensive side of the ball, the group has combined for 21 tackles in four games. On special teams, Tracy has hit on 9-of-10 field goals and 13-of-13 on extra points,
When diving into just how often the signing class is being used, the numbers speak volumes - and it begins with the transfers and JUCO additions.
There's probably more but you should be able to get the drift from these quotes in the 24/7 article. Free 24/7 article
Is there something else you can use to try to steer the argument in your favor. Like Atkins kick-offs don't count because he was a walk-on even though he is also listed in 24/7's recruiting class article but not included in the rankings.
Posted on 7/17/19 at 1:04 pm to thunderbird1100
quote:
Gee, it's almost like the weakest class we've signed recruiting ranking wise in the past upteen years also lost the most players the quickest,
Go ahead and post the previous LSU classes in which only about 2/3's of it didn't leave after 1 season before going into full melt mode. Thanks
quote:
also lost the most players the quickest
It may be hard for you to pay attention as this has already been mentioned, BUT LSU had THREE draft eligible underclassmen declare for the NFL draft. If six or seven or nine had declared you would not have to cry because LSU would have kept more of the lowest rated recruits from the 2018 class.
quote:
I know it's impossible for you to be objective about anything LSU related, but there's a reason that class was ranked so badly compared to most LSU classes - it was a weak class overall,
But which one of the four classes in these posts is it weaker than? Why should I cry over the 2018 class if I am not crying over the 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2010 classes? I like to know the reason why I am crying when I cry.
https://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/display.aspx?sp=84447051&s=2&p=84428002#84447051
https://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/display.aspx?sp=84447328&s=2&p=84428002#84447328
quote:
it was a weak class overall
From the source you provided to make a point:
quote:
Through four games, 16 of the 25 signees have already seen the field
Seven of the signees have started
that number will likely rise to eight(it did).
Translation: 32-percent of the class will have made at least one start, and the Tigers are just one-third of the way into the schedule.
When diving into just how often the signing class is being used, the numbers speak volumes
While there is plenty of football still ahead for the class, it appears Orgeron’s finished product on National Signing Day is trending ahead of where recruiting analysts pegged the group
You may not have noticed the quoted statements before since you seem to be focused in on trying to make the lowest rated players of 2018 class leaving to make room for retuning starters into a negative.
Posted on 7/17/19 at 1:04 pm to Tiger Ree
quote:
So you are only using one class in comparison? Is the #2 2014 class weaker than 2018? The #5 and #6 classes in 2015 and 2013 were weaker than the 2018 class?
You think using the 2017 class, which is a year older, is bad comparison?
Connect the dots, after TWO years, the 2017 has had about half as many players leave as the 2018 class has after 1 year.
Again, Still waiting for all the LSU classes in which only 2/3's of it remained after the FIRST year on campus. IE, they didn't make it to the start of the 2nd season. I dont see how you think that is anything but indicative of a weak class if a huge chunk of them have jumped ship after 1 season.
I'm not talking about guys from 8 years ago who left after 2-3 seasons on the team, again show me a class in which after JUST ONE year, we saw a big part of them (1/3 in this case) leave.
quote:
That Through four games, 16 of the 25 signees had already seen the field. Seven of the signees had started in at least one game, and that number became eight when Hines57 started some games. That is not a weak class.
Grant Delpit was way way better his freshman year than any "starter" we had from the 2018 class last season of the 22 high school/juco signees. Speaking of that, Lewis was the only true "starter" this year from the 2018 recruiting class. Other guys made spot starts here and there, but were NOT consistent season starters. Chase took over towards end of season starting, but still only started 7 total games. There will be a few good players from the class (Chase and Marshall notably) as you cant miss on 20+ guys, but it will be less than other classes and you'd have to be really crazy to think otherwise. When for the umteenth time, show me a 1/3 of an LSU class that jumped ship after just 1 season (Still haven't)
quote:
Why did you get to set the rules of the conversation?
LINK /
LINK /
You're trying to spin a bad recruiting class with a few good transfers, we all see that, but try and stick to what we're all actually talking about and how the recruiting services rank recruiting classes.
Amazing you simply cant admit the 2018 class is clearly a weaker class when anyone can easily see it. Actually no its not, it's easy for you to just spew your propaganda over and over
This post was edited on 7/17/19 at 1:10 pm
Posted on 7/17/19 at 1:52 pm to thunderbird1100
quote:
You think using the 2017 class, which is a year older, is bad comparison?
Not at all. I think it is a great comparison. I'm just asking if you have more than just the one class? I provided four or five that are the complete opposite and they are the only ones I looked at. Is 2017 unusual or are there more?
quote:
after TWO years, the 2017 has had about half as many players leave as the 2018 class has after 1 year. the 2017 has had about half as many players leave as the 2018 class has after 1 year.
And every one of the classes I mentioned had more and higher rated players leave the team.
Are all those classes weaker than the 2018 class?
quote:
Again, Still waiting for all the LSU classes in which only 2/3's of it remained after the FIRST year
Be patient because it is not coming. It takes enough time to make sure the players I had listed had indeed left the team. Determining what year they left would require more time than I have to devote.
Do you think is better for an LSU player to leave after their junior season after having never contributed than to leave after their first season?
Do you think multiple five and four star players leaving LSU after a couple of years is better than LSU losing its lowest rated recruits after one season?
quote:
I dont see how you think that is anything but indicative of a weak class if a huge chunk of them have jumped ship after 1 season
Okay, for the third time now, and I can do this all day long and then some.
LSU had three draft-eligible underclassmen declare for the draft. That, believe it or not, is a very good thing for the LSU program and fans. It is very bad for the lowest rated signess from the most recent class. I am okay with it and think it is a GREAT situation to have.
quote:
again show me a class in which after JUST ONE year, we saw a big part of them (1/3 in this case) leave.
Not going to happen because I for one think it is better for them to leave after one year if they and the coaches see the writing on the wall OR LSU has like a record low number of underclassmen declare for the NFL draft.
quote:
Grant Delpit was way way better his freshman year than any "starter" we had from the 2018 class last season
But was he way more valuable to the team than Jeaux Burreaux? Damien Lewis? the team's leading scorer for the season? Avery Atkins? Ja'Marr Chase?
Was 2018's Ja'Marr Chase way way way better than 2017's Mannie Netherly and Racey McMath?
quote:
You're trying to spin a bad recruiting class with a few good transfers, we all see that,
I am going by what 24/7 says in their recruiting article and what everyone on this site has been saying for over a year now. I am not spinning anything. If you disagree with the source that you yourself provided to try to make a point then take it up with them.
quote:
but try and stick to what we're all actually talking about and how the recruiting services rank recruiting classes.
This thread has nothing to do with how recruiting services rank classes. This thread is trying to spam the wrong message board and cause doom and gloom over absolutely nothing.
quote:
Amazing you simply cant admit the 2018 class is clearly a weaker class
Compared to what? When compared to the 2010, 2013, 2014 and 2015 (the only classes I looked at) it is not weak at all.
quote:
when anyone can easily see it. Actually no its not, it's easy for you to just spew your propaganda over and over
It is not my propaganda. It is 24/7's facts I am reporting. The previous classes, their rankings and the players that have left the program are all from 24/7. I'm not making it up. Check for yourself and tell me anything I have posted about any class that is not 100% correct.
It is 24/7's article I am using to show the starters, contributors, percentage of contributors and the opinion on the 2018 recruiting class.
You just can't seem to understand that for some reason and are trying to blame me for being right.
This post was edited on 7/17/19 at 1:58 pm
Posted on 7/17/19 at 2:12 pm to Tiger Ree
quote:2019
Compared to what? When compared to the 2010, 2013, 2014 and 2015 (the only classes I looked at) it is not weak at all.
Recruiting: #5
Season: TBD
2018
Recruiting: #15
Season: 10-3
2017
Recruiting: #7
Season: 9-4
2016
Recruiting: #2
Season: 8-4
2015
Recruiting: #5
Season: 9-3
2014
Recruiting: #2
Season: 8-5
2013
Recruiting: #6
Season: 10-3
Posted on 7/17/19 at 2:15 pm to Tiger Ree
quote:
Be patient because it is not coming.
Thanks, at least you recognize us losing this many players from a class this quickly is completely out of the norm, and so was that weaker recruiting class which was the cause. We've simply got better players overall from other classes, not sure why that's hsrd to admit or comprehend. We had an off year recruiting in 2018, it happens to a ton of teams. We went through a coaching change and most doubted Coach O and he had to deal with a ton of negative recruiting, then he proved to everyone in 2018 things are fine and in fact looking up, hence now all the doubt is mostly gone, and it's not hard to lock up the better players we want. Not guys who high tail it out of here after 1 year.
This post was edited on 7/17/19 at 2:16 pm
Posted on 7/17/19 at 2:17 pm to Tiger Ree
quote:
Compared to what? When compared to the 2010, 2013, 2014 and 2015 (the only classes I looked at) it is not weak at all.
Those classes blow away 2018 so far, dont be so dumb. 2018 still has a ways to go to see where it will fall, but to admit anything other it's off to a shitty start overall is simply being a complete buffoon to ignore 1/3 of the class leaving after 1 season.
Posted on 7/17/19 at 2:33 pm to thunderbird1100
quote:
Thanks, at least you recognize us losing this many players from a class this quickly is completely out of the norm,
I also recognize that only 3 undergrad draft-eligible players leaving because of declaring for the NFL draft is out of the norm.
You don't seem to be able to comprehend this and the fact that it is a requirement that college football teams are limited to 85 scholarship players.
quote:
and so was that weaker recruiting class which was the cause
Talk about a broken record. Was 2014 a weak recruiting class? 2015? 2013? Many more AND higher rated players left those classes. Was 2018 stronger than those classes?
quote:
We've simply got better players overall from other classes, not sure why that's hsrd to admit or comprehend
Because you are crying over the 2018 class being weak because the 5 lowest rated players and two 4-stars are or may leave.
I am saying that the five lowest rated players are leaving because of the returning starters that DID NOT declare for the NFL draft. "not sure why that's hsrd to admit or comprehend."
quote:
and it's not hard to lock up the better players we want. Not guys who high tail it out of here after 1 year.
If LSU has a low number of players declare for the draft after next season, we will be crying again because the lowest rated players from the 2019 will "high tail it out of here after 1 year.."
Posted on 7/17/19 at 2:39 pm to thunderbird1100
quote:
Those classes blow away 2018 so far, dont be so dumb. 2018 still has a ways to go to see where it will fall, but to admit anything other it's off to a shitty start overall is simply being a complete buffoon
I don't know about you being buffoon but you are definitely hard-headed and refuse to accept fact.
LSU's 2018 class exceeding expectations?
From LSU's 24/7 guy:
quote:
Shea Dixon Retweeted Shea Dixon
In this story, numbers on each recruiting class. One that stings? The 2015 class, where 39% of the signees have already transferred or been dismissed.
From the 2014-2016 classes, only 32 signees (44%) remain on the team right now.
A long read on the state of the #LSU scholarship chart, including insight on moves Orgeron's had to make.
Posted on 7/17/19 at 2:47 pm to Tiger Ree
Their job is sunshine pump, much like yours, ask Sonny or Shea what they think of the 2018 class relative to others now and you will get their real answer which it's clearly weaker, or again, 1/3 of the class wouldn't have left already.
That article was also written in September 2018...
In the 2015 class did 1/3 of that class leave after 1 season? Yes or no?
And the whole narrative about only losing 3 to the draft early is dumb, it's not like we've had 7 or 8 declare early every season. In 2015 only 2 guys declared early for draft, 1 of them didnt even play that year either. Did that cause a bunch of early attrition in 2015 class to the tune of 1/3 after 1 season? No. If the 2018 guys were better they wouldn't have been the ones to be jumping ship so early, pretty simple.
That article was also written in September 2018...
In the 2015 class did 1/3 of that class leave after 1 season? Yes or no?
And the whole narrative about only losing 3 to the draft early is dumb, it's not like we've had 7 or 8 declare early every season. In 2015 only 2 guys declared early for draft, 1 of them didnt even play that year either. Did that cause a bunch of early attrition in 2015 class to the tune of 1/3 after 1 season? No. If the 2018 guys were better they wouldn't have been the ones to be jumping ship so early, pretty simple.
This post was edited on 7/17/19 at 2:55 pm
Posted on 7/17/19 at 3:02 pm to Tiger Ree
quote:
In this story, numbers on each recruiting class. One that stings? The 2015 class, where 39% of the signees have already transferred or been dismissed.
That story was written in 2018, three years after the 2015 class was signed.
quote:
From the 2014-2016 classes, only 32 signees (44%) remain on the team right now.
Again, in an article written in 2018. Of course there will be attrition over 4-5 years, its the immediate attrition within one season that concerns many people.
Posted on 7/17/19 at 3:21 pm to thunderbird1100
quote:
which it's clearly weaker, or again, 1/3 of the class wouldn't have left already.
The NFL draft is the reason. I'm done with your idiocy after this post.
quote:
1/3 of the class wouldn't have left already.
LSU had a signing class of 26 and added a walk-on to get to 27. So how do you calculate they are losing one-third of it when six players have left and they may lose one more for a total of 7.
In Shea's tweet from Apr 2018 he is incorrect with his percentage. LSU had 74 signees from 2014-2016 and per his tweet lost 32 of them. That would leave 43% remaining on the team and not 44%.
quote:
That article was also written in September 2018.
And that is why more of the players from the class participated.
Which LSU players burned their redshirts in 2018?
J Chase 13 games
T Marshall 13 games
Atkins 13 games
K Jones 13 games
D Clark 12 games
K Joseph 11 games
Baskerville 8 games
Hines57 8 games
Curry 4 games (redshirt)
quote:
In the 2015 class did 1/3 of that class leave after 1 season? Yes or no?
Yes, every player that left was before their first season or right after and way before their second season.
quote:
And the whole narrative about only losing 3 to the draft early is dumb
You are dumb.
quote:
it's not like we've had 7 or 8 declare early every season.
2018 had 7 players give up eligibility and declare for the draft. I think it was 2012 that had over 10 players declare.
quote:
If the 2018 guys were better they wouldn't have been the ones to be jumping ship so early, pretty simple.
So you think LSU should have processed players who have been maturing mentally and physically, learning the ropes academically and athletically, have been developed in the offensive or defensive systems for years for the first year lowest rated players. Wouldn't that be kind of dumb to invest the time, money and effort only to cut a guy after three years?
Posted on 7/17/19 at 3:29 pm to Tiger Ree
Totally disregarded 2 players leaving for the NFL early in 2015 and the effect on that class (hint, 1/3 of that class didn't vacate immediately)...figures
Cant ever admit when your spin is simply wrong. I guess it doesnt suck to still get paid and be wrong, as long as you spin the propaganda your way.
BTW 7/22 = 31.8%
LINK /
I'd say 1/3 is justified, where as you have to continually try and add transfers and walk ons who are NOT counted as part of the recruiting class and its ranking which is what is being discussed.
Cant ever admit when your spin is simply wrong. I guess it doesnt suck to still get paid and be wrong, as long as you spin the propaganda your way.
BTW 7/22 = 31.8%
LINK /
I'd say 1/3 is justified, where as you have to continually try and add transfers and walk ons who are NOT counted as part of the recruiting class and its ranking which is what is being discussed.
This post was edited on 7/17/19 at 3:33 pm
Posted on 7/17/19 at 3:47 pm to geauxtigers87
You usually only get 6-7 starters out of each class. We have Marshall, Chase, Hines and Lewis already, I would imagine Baskersville, Rosenthal, Clark all push for starting spots next year.
It was a weaker class, but I would hate to be starting this year without Marshall, Chase, Hines or Lewis.
It was a weaker class, but I would hate to be starting this year without Marshall, Chase, Hines or Lewis.
Posted on 7/17/19 at 4:46 pm to Dlab2013
quote:
Isn’t Joe Burrow technically in that class.........
Kinda but not really.
There comes a year where a recruiting class is going to be expected to step up. 2020 is that year for the 2018 class and Burrow won't be here.
Posted on 7/17/19 at 6:38 pm to Tiger Ree
quote:
Which LSU players burned their redshirts in 2018?
J Chase 13 games
T Marshall 13 games
Atkins 13 games
K Jones 13 games
D Clark 12 games
K Joseph 11 games
Baskerville 8 games
Hines57 8 games
Just saw this on 24/7:
Clemson had 10 true freshmen who did not redshirt. They had two players who who played in all 15 of Clemson's games and also started some games - 11 (QB Trevor Lawrence) and 15 starts (kickoff guy).
Eight other guys played in games but did not start in any of them. Four players besides the two above also saw playing time in all 15 games. One in 14 games. One in 13 games and 2 player in 12 games.
Clemson only had two more players that didn't redshirt than LSU.
Clemson must have had a weak 2018 class with weak players.
Posted on 7/17/19 at 8:07 pm to Tiger365
quote:
I will never cry over a DB leaving. We consistently recruit that position on a high level. Also, I said this before, Kelvin Joseph should have been playing Safety.
I think so too, problem is they didn't recruit any CBS so he played there because LSU was thin at CB. Dbs leaving is why we were in that mess. Y'all seriously have memory issues if you can't remember the last game being played with a transfer and some wrs.
Posted on 7/17/19 at 9:10 pm to Tiger Ree
bruh y'all are fookin this board up with these paragraphs.
tiger tee shits wherever he goes
tiger tee shits wherever he goes
Posted on 7/17/19 at 9:38 pm to Chalkywhite84
Don’t take the bait Thunderbird.
Imo the ‘18 class will prove that even a #15 ranked class was too generous.
It had a few elite guys, a few solid guys, and a bunch of meh.
Fortunately they have rebounded because back to back classes like that would lead to an LSU coach looking for a new gig sooner rather than later.
Imo the ‘18 class will prove that even a #15 ranked class was too generous.
It had a few elite guys, a few solid guys, and a bunch of meh.
Fortunately they have rebounded because back to back classes like that would lead to an LSU coach looking for a new gig sooner rather than later.
This post was edited on 7/17/19 at 9:47 pm
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