- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: LSU has 25, 27 or 28 schollies to Give ?
Posted on 12/11/17 at 2:02 pm to whitefoot
Posted on 12/11/17 at 2:02 pm to whitefoot
quote:
15.5.1.9.1 Limitation on Number of National Letter of Intent/Offer of Financial Aid Signings—Bowl Subdivision Football. [FBS] In bowl subdivision football, there shall be an annual limit of 25 on the number of prospective student-athletes who may sign a National Letter of Intent or an institutional offer of financial aid and student-athletes who may sign a financial aid agreement for the first time. (Adopted: 1/16/10 effective 8/1/10, Revised: 1/14/12 effective 8/1/12, 4/26/17 effective 8/1/17 for signings that occur on or after 8/1/17)
15.5.1.9.1.1 Application. [FBS] A prospective student-athlete who signs a National Letter of Intent or an institutional offer of financial aid or a student-athlete who signs a financial aid agreement that specifies financial aid will be initially provided in the fall term of an academic year shall count toward the annual limit on signings for that academic year. A prospective student-athlete who signs a National Letter of Intent or an institutional offer of financial aid or a student-athlete who signs a financial aid agreement that specifies financial aid will be initially provided during the second or third term of the academic year may count toward the limit for that academic year or the limit for the next academic year. (Adopted: 1/14/12 effective 8/1/12, Revised: 4/26/17 effective 8/1/17 for signings that occur on or after 8/1/17)
15.5.1.9.1.2 Exception—Agreement After Second Year. [FBS] A student-athlete who has been in residence at the certifying institution for at least two academic years may sign a financial aid agreement for the first time without counting toward the annual limit on signings. (Adopted: 4/26/17 effective 8/1/17 for signings that occur on or after 8/1/17)
15.5.1.9.1.3 Exception—Incapacitating Injury or Illness. [FBS] A prospective student-athlete or student-athlete who, prior to participation in athletically related activities, becomes injured or ill to the point that he or she apparently never again will be able to participate in intercollegiate athletics shall not count toward the institution’s annual limit on signings. (Adopted: 4/26/17 effective 8/1/17 for signings that occur on or after 8/1/17)
While it is written in a different way, the bolded/underlined part above authorizes back counting. What I have no idea about is how they are initializing the count for this year, so I have no position on how many we can sign. Also NLIs, as my previous post suggested is different from a counter.
2
Posted on 12/11/17 at 2:03 pm to LuckyTiger
Where is that from? I think that was written prior to the new recruiting rules that were adopted last April. That might still hold up, but I've seen that exact wording used in articles I found from last February.
Posted on 12/11/17 at 2:05 pm to whitefoot
Posted on 12/11/17 at 2:10 pm to Indiana Tiger
quote:
What I have no idea about is how they are initializing the count for this year
Thanks. That's very helpful. I guess we will know based on how many we sign this year. Surely, though, we applied a lot of last year's class as 2016 initial counters, so the number is the same no matter how they initialize the count.
This post was edited on 12/11/17 at 2:19 pm
Posted on 12/11/17 at 2:11 pm to Indiana Tiger
quote:
It's from the latest NCAA manual:
2017-18 NCAA Manual
p 208
Sorry, I was replying to Lucky Tiger asking where his quote was from.
Posted on 12/11/17 at 2:20 pm to Dudebro2
quote:
They CAN'T dumbass it would be a RULES VIOLATION!!! The new rules adopted this summer put a HARD cap on the number of signees you can accept in a recruiting class each year. No if's and's or but's about it! So unless a team wants an immediate rules violation with major consequences then NO there isn't a team that will sign more than 25 in a class.
Please quote the specific bylaw and not a recycled comment from some random person on a message board or a reporter.
There has been a “hard cap” of 25 for several years. The NCAA views limits in terms of academic years, not by “signing class” like we do. We may say a team is oversigning or backcounting because they sign 27 players in the class of 2018. The NCAA simply refers to 25 players counting toward the limits for the 2017-2018 year or 25 players counting toward the 2018-2019 year.
This post was edited on 12/11/17 at 2:20 pm
Posted on 12/12/17 at 12:26 am to MOT
So, say 10 guys declare for the NFL draft, why are those spots not available to be filled?
Posted on 12/12/17 at 7:17 am to 1723lale
you want bet little nickie signs more than 25 and gets away with it
Posted on 12/12/17 at 7:36 am to lovemytigers1
quote:
So, say 10 guys declare for the NFL draft, why are those spots not available to be filled?
This is my question as well. If you can sign 25 a year with redshirts that's a total of 125 over five years. You can only have 85 scholarship players at a time (and maybe this ruling is only for the 85). So if players (whether 40 of the 125 or 15 of 100 over 4 years) leave for any reason (injury, draft, transfer, etc.) what can the school do to fill those scholarships?
Is it only offer the scholarships to walk-ons (from Dandy Don's response from the NCAA in today's write-up, "anyone who is signing for the first time with the school they are signing with counts – unless they have been a walk-on for at least two years or suffer an incapacitating injury.")
If transfers count does a transfer who is ineligible to play for one year due to that transfer still counted against the cap?
I'm guessing we're a really small minority of the population who cares about this...
Posted on 12/12/17 at 7:36 am to lovemytigers1
There is some speculation with the way the rule is read that LSU could take 27.
Posted on 12/12/17 at 7:53 am to 1723lale
quote:
So, say 10 guys declare for the NFL draft, why are those spots not available to be filled?
Scholarships are for one year only. They have to be renewed each year. So if a coach chooses, he can sign the maximum number without violating the 85 by "processing" players off the roster. This includes transfers, career ending medical reasons, players who leave for the nfl, and kicking players off the team. The point is that guys declaring early for the NFL don't determine the true max allowed. Any number under the max is a choice and no matter how many leave, the max is the max. This is the way it was and it is the way it will be until changed.
As I said in an earlier post, the new rules do restrict the max more than before. E.g. a non-qualifier signee could increase the max the next year if you had an EE to fill his spot. This is no longer true. There are a couple of exceptions, but this is not covered.
This post was edited on 12/12/17 at 8:03 am
Posted on 12/12/17 at 8:30 am to Indiana Tiger
quote:
Indiana Tiger
I know you’re one of the very few who take the time to actually read the way rules are written. Is it possible the very specific language in the revision has closed the blue shirt loophole? I never took the time to understand how that worked around the gray area, but I know a big difference is the rule now specifically mentions when the aid is intended to begin. Just wondering if it could be related.
ETA: The 25 signee cap went into effect a few years ago to bring it in line with the initial counter limit. Below is how the rule was worded in last year’s manual. The 25 limit is specifically mentioned, as well as early enrollees not counting. It’s almost like the 17-18 revision was due to the prior version not specifically outlining how EE’s should be counted in the signee limit. A loose interpretation of the prior wording could mean they didn’t have to count to either year’s limit.
ETA2: Sorry for the formatting below, not sure why it does that when copied and pasted.
quote:
13.9.2.3 LimitationonNumberofNationalLetterofIntent/O erofFinancialAidSignings—Bowl SubdivisionFootball.[FBS] Inbowlsubdivisionfootball,thereshallbeanannuallimitof25onthenumber of prospective student-athletes who may sign a National Letter of Intent or an institutional o er of nancial aid from December 1 through May 31. [D] (Adopted: 1/16/10 e ective 8/1/10, Revised: 1/14/12 e ective 8/1/12)
13.9.2.3.1 Exception—CounterDuringSameAcademicYear.[FBS] Aprospectivestudent-athlete who signs a National Letter of Intent or an institutional o er of nancial aid and becomes an initial counter for the same academic year in which the signing occurred (e.g., midyear enrollee) shall not count toward the annual limit on signings. (Adopted: 1/14/12 e ective 8/1/12)
This post was edited on 12/12/17 at 8:51 am
Posted on 12/12/17 at 10:29 am to MOT
quote:
the blue shirt loophole?
I never really understood that one, so I can't say if it was related or not. To the extent that I did, I convinced myself, whether justified or not, that it was too specific to actually be much of a problem and didn't justify all the turmoil about it.
quote:
It’s almost like the 17-18 revision was due to the prior version not specifically outlining how EE’s should be counted in the signee limit. A loose interpretation of the prior wording could mean they didn’t have to count to either year’s limit.
The loose interpretation might be correct, but it wouldn't matter because the counter rules would include them. When this first went into effect after the excessive Ole Miss signings, I thought they were going to do something along the lines we have now. But by excluding the EEs, it didn't really do much to slow down oversigning. Right now, unless there are exceptions somewhere else in the manual, everybody who gets financial aid for the first time who wasn't a multi year walkon will count. Transfers, even the senior transfers, will cost you a spot. Note the language:
quote:
there shall be an annual limit of 25 on the number of prospective student-athletes who may sign a National Letter of Intent or an institutional offer of financial aid and student-athletes who may sign a financial aid agreement for the first time.
This is a pretty big deal
Posted on 12/12/17 at 10:59 am to Indiana Tiger
I believe the language is similar in the bylaw pertaining to transfers and initial counters, and would fall into the same interpretation. It doesn’t state a student athlete who signs an agreement for the first time with that school. Presumably a signee/initial counter who has signed previously, counted, and then transfers would not count against either of those limits, just the 85.
At least that’s the way I read it.
At least that’s the way I read it.
Posted on 12/12/17 at 11:15 am to MOT
Initial counter doesn't have much meaning anymore and the language probably should be eliminated. FWIW, this is from Dandy Don this morning. IF, the quotes are accurate, then the rules I posted above are it.
quote:
I contacted the NCAA to ask if this applied to transfers, specifically JUCO transfers, and here’s the response I received: “The 25 limit is on anyone signing a first-time financial aid agreement that year, with very limited exceptions. A little more explanation is in the fourth bullet here.” Upon pressing for clarification as to whether this meant JUCO transfers were included in the limit of 25, I received this response: “Transfers count – anyone who is signing for the first time with the school they are signing with counts – unless they have been a walk-on for at least two years or suffer an incapacitating injury.”
Posted on 12/12/17 at 11:16 am to MOT
Double post
This post was edited on 12/12/17 at 11:18 am
Posted on 12/12/17 at 11:36 am to Indiana Tiger
Thanks, I hadn’t seen that. I wonder if “transfers” in his context are specific to jucos since he mentioned pressing for that answer.
Regardless, I think we agree the rules are more specific and defined, probably more strict, but that backcounting is still allowed.
I also agree about initial counters. If you check that bylaw in the revised version it is worded the same as the signee limit rules. They’ve basically tightened it down to where your initial counters are the same as the signees.
Regardless, I think we agree the rules are more specific and defined, probably more strict, but that backcounting is still allowed.
I also agree about initial counters. If you check that bylaw in the revised version it is worded the same as the signee limit rules. They’ve basically tightened it down to where your initial counters are the same as the signees.
Posted on 12/12/17 at 12:51 pm to MOT
quote:
initial counters are the same as the signees.
But they are not the same. signee is more restrictive than initial counter. A signee may never become a counter.
quote:
I wonder if “transfers” in his context are specific to jucos since he mentioned pressing for that answer.
I don't think so. Since counter and signee are not the same, any reg creating an exception would have to specify signee. Aren't they considering loosening the transfer rules? If so, this may be in anticipation of that. You would no longer be trading the 85th roster member for a transfer, but the last player you would sign. Potential vs a known. I think the bigger boys would be reluctant to take a transfer unless they had a big need that the transfer could fulfill.
Posted on 12/14/17 at 12:26 am to Indiana Tiger
Ok, trying to glean what i can out of what y'all are saying, so, 85 is scholarship limit. If Seniors leave, some juniors leave for the draft,...say we lose 29 scholarship players, we can still only sign 25 scholarships for the next cycle?
This post was edited on 12/14/17 at 12:27 am
Posted on 12/14/17 at 7:21 am to nicholastiger
quote:
f there was a loophole why didn't LSU use it to it's advantage like other teams in the SEC did?
LSU never seemed to be able to take advantage of it because the 85 Limit would always mess it up. Tennessee and Ole Miss regularly signed 29-32 for a few years. No idea how 85 never caught up to them.
Page 2 of 3
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News