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Great article on One and Done basketball recruits
Posted on 6/11/09 at 2:11 pm
Posted on 6/11/09 at 2:11 pm
One and dones worth the risk?
I said a few months ago that I liked Trent Johnson's apparent philosophy of avoiding one and done type players. Many replied that was a stupid policy, that he should recruit the best players at all times, regardless. The attached article is a good read on the subject. More and more coaches appear to now agree.
I said a few months ago that I liked Trent Johnson's apparent philosophy of avoiding one and done type players. Many replied that was a stupid policy, that he should recruit the best players at all times, regardless. The attached article is a good read on the subject. More and more coaches appear to now agree.
1
Posted on 6/11/09 at 2:24 pm to Bubba Hotep
Bubba-I agree with you about the one and dones. And I"m glad TJ is not a fan of that process. As I stated before if you look at Michigan States program, they have been to 5 Final Fours in the past 11 years WITHOUT any one and dones. Also, you look at the program at UCONN with Coach Calhoun, he has made a habit of championship level teams and very very few McDonald All-Americans. TJ will find the atheletes that will fit his system and IMO the Tigers will be consistently at top program.
Posted on 6/11/09 at 2:31 pm to TeamLSU
Not very good examples. Both of those programs have had numerous players leave after 1 or 2 years.
Posted on 6/11/09 at 2:39 pm to TeamLSU
quote:
they have been to 5 Final Fours in the past 11 years WITHOUT any one and dones
zack randolph?
Posted on 6/11/09 at 2:44 pm to jrmcmahon
jr-who is the last Michigan State player to leave after a one and done season, and i'm talking over the LONG haul. For instance, Michigan State basketball team had only ONE McDonalds All-American player on its Final Four roster, UCONN was basically the same. Believe me I am in very good touch with the UCONN program and Coach Calhoun. While it is nice if they get maybe 1 or 2 McDonalds AA, basically the history of Coach Calhoun is to DEVELOP his players. Players that may not be on the radar. For instance they were very interested in a kid named Travis Bureau from St. Amant High. That was a kid that flew under the radar, with LSU getting on him very very late and he ended up at ULL ONLY because he didnt want to leave the state. But believe me that kid at 6'7 could shoot lights out as he made an immediate impact his freshmen year.
Posted on 6/11/09 at 3:12 pm to TeamLSU
quote:
jr-who is the last Michigan State player to leave after a one and done season, and i'm talking over the LONG haul. For instance, Michigan State basketball team had only ONE McDonalds All-American player on its Final Four roster, UCONN was basically the same. Believe me I am in very good touch with the UCONN program and Coach Calhoun. While it is nice if they get maybe 1 or 2 McDonalds AA, basically the history of Coach Calhoun is to DEVELOP his players. Players that may not be on the radar. For instance they were very interested in a kid named Travis Bureau from St. Amant High. That was a kid that flew under the radar, with LSU getting on him very very late and he ended up at ULL ONLY because he didnt want to leave the state. But believe me that kid at 6'7 could shoot lights out as he made an immediate impact his freshmen year.
I watched him light up the nets against LSU. I watched Daigle make sick shot after sick shot as well.
In the end, if these players were truly good enough for the SEC they wouldn't have finished 7-11 in the SBC and 10-20 overall.
Posted on 6/11/09 at 3:18 pm to TigerRagAndrew
TigerRag-Believe me UCONN had serious interest in Travis Bureau. They got on him very very late also. I talked to Coach Calhoun numerous times about Travis and also about Bo Spencer before Bo signed with LSU. Coach Calhoun saw the tape on Travis and it wasn't because Travis doesn't have the talent to play at that level, believe me he does. He CHOSE to not leave the state and the previous coaching staff FAILED to recruit the kid until UCONN showed interest. It was only then that LSU showed interest in Travis Bureau.
Posted on 6/13/09 at 4:53 pm to TeamLSU
quote:
He CHOSE to not leave the state and the previous coaching staff FAILED to recruit the kid until UCONN showed interest. It was only then that LSU showed interest in Travis Bureau
Did you ever consider that LSU can't sign every prospect in Louisiana every year. Yes, some players fly below radar and then blow up into big time players. For every Danny Granger who got away there is a Tyrus Thomas who became big time in an LSU uniform.
The year Travis Bureau "spurned" UCONN for USL LSU signed SEC Player of the Year and future first round pick Marcus Thornton, lottery pick Anthony Randolph, starting SEC champion PG Bo Spencer and highly regarded JUCO center Quinton Thornton at a posiiton vitally needing depth. So which of those scholarships shouldhave gone to Travis Bureau?
It is lucicrous to constantly bash a staff for the players they did not sign, yet give little credit for the one they did. This same staff recruited three SEC championship teams in this decade, a Final Four and Sweet 16 participant and four SEC West champions.
Posted on 6/13/09 at 5:45 pm to tiger20
Tiger-You are missing the point. Believe me Travis Bureau was going to ULL regardless of who offered him. Whether it was LSU or North Carolina. My point is that he is a very talented kid and someone questioned whether he could compete on that level. The response about UCONN is directed to those who questioned the kids abilities. thats all. And while the previous staff recurited the other players over Travis, thats their problem. I know Marcus personally, as well as Tyrus, Big Baby, and Taz. And i have been in the business of getting kids from this area into college for over 10 years, whether they are highly regarded or not so highly regarded.
Posted on 6/13/09 at 5:52 pm to TeamLSU
And by the way, my only problem with the previous coaching staff was their INABILITY to recruit a quality point guard consistenly. they put all their eggs in the Tack Minor basket and anyone with half a brain knew that tack was not a true point guard. the choice the made to offer Ben Voogd instead of Ryan Francis goes beyond me. How can you explain that ineptitude.
Posted on 6/13/09 at 6:02 pm to TeamLSU
how could it have happened ? have you forgotten who our coach was ?
Posted on 6/13/09 at 7:57 pm to cheeser
In the general sense there's nothing wrong with the one and done rule. Yeah they don't have to take school seriously and yeah they're usually gonna leave, but it gives a big benefit to both the college and pro game.
It gives the pro game the year or perhaps even 2 of being able to scout these kids vs legit competition and allow them to get coached the basics on the college level rather than having to draft these kids without really knowing what you're gonna get and having to teach them basic skills and team concepts that college coaches are better equipped to do for them. And it weeds out the busts or at least keeps them in college long enough to where they can develop the knowledge or skills that they lack. I mean guys like Telfair or Kwame would've done wonders for their games if they'd gone to college instead of having basically be thrown to the wolves as the talent is there with both of them.
As for college, yeah they get students that may not care about school, but some of these teams get players that make them contenders like Kevin Love or Derrick Rose or Oden, and the entire sport benefits from the star power that these guys bring in a sport that desperately needs it. The only people getting the raw end of the deal are some guys that truly don't need it and are going to college if they dont want to and risking career injuries instead of going straight to the money.
It gives the pro game the year or perhaps even 2 of being able to scout these kids vs legit competition and allow them to get coached the basics on the college level rather than having to draft these kids without really knowing what you're gonna get and having to teach them basic skills and team concepts that college coaches are better equipped to do for them. And it weeds out the busts or at least keeps them in college long enough to where they can develop the knowledge or skills that they lack. I mean guys like Telfair or Kwame would've done wonders for their games if they'd gone to college instead of having basically be thrown to the wolves as the talent is there with both of them.
As for college, yeah they get students that may not care about school, but some of these teams get players that make them contenders like Kevin Love or Derrick Rose or Oden, and the entire sport benefits from the star power that these guys bring in a sport that desperately needs it. The only people getting the raw end of the deal are some guys that truly don't need it and are going to college if they dont want to and risking career injuries instead of going straight to the money.
Posted on 6/13/09 at 10:38 pm to TeamLSU
quote:
And by the way, my only problem with the previous coaching staff was their INABILITY to recruit a quality point guard consistenly. they put all their eggs in the Tack Minor basket and anyone with half a brain knew that tack was not a true point guard.
Halfof the prior staff's tenure was spent under NCAA investigation or recruiting with the limitations of draconian sanctions after the demise of the program in coach Brown's last four seasons. In essence there was only one stellar season in a ten year span. Therefore, they were not in position to be selective in every recruiting situation.
Tack Minor was a top 25 rated player when signed in 2003. The program was just starting to emerge from the shadows of the NCAA sanctions. Tack was actually developing into an above average point guard when he was suspended for academic issues.
The staff did everything it could to sign D J Augustin, but when his family was displaced to Houston by Katrina Texas won the battle by default.
quote:
the choice the made to offer Ben Voogd instead of Ryan Francis goes beyond me. How can you explain that ineptitude.
I am certain the staff based the recruitment of Voogd on having seen him perform well in AAU competition. At that time they had an emerging star in Tack Minor and it was anticipated they would sign Augustine so the recruitment of Voogd as a backup was not as horrible as you make it sound.
You can throw up the Ryan Francis issue, but he may have had academic issues or other personal issues that made the staff shy away from him. Until Tim Floyd was named USC coach and signed Francis during the summer in a somewhat desperation move, Francis had no other major offers. So why didn't all of the other great coaches recruit him.
In the final analysis this staff that you deem inept recruited a Final Four team and two SEC champions plus three SEC players of the year, three first round draft choices assuming Marcus Thornton is a first rounder, including two lottery picks and two other draftees during the time period that four year period. Was every recruiting decision perfect? No, but the same can be said for virtually every program in the country, even those exalted programs with legendary coaches.
This post was edited on 6/13/09 at 11:29 pm
Posted on 6/13/09 at 11:25 pm to TeamLSU
quote:
Also, you look at the program at UCONN with Coach Calhoun, he has made a habit of championship level teams and very very few McDonald All-Americans.
Maybe not a lot of All-Americans, but I wouldn't use Calhoun's program as a model for how the recruiting process should work.
Posted on 6/14/09 at 11:23 am to tigerguy121
Well pretty much the previous staff recruiting was done by Collis Temple. And he didn't have to do much for that. Again in over 10 years it is inexcusable NOT to recruit a QUALITY point guard. As for Tack Minor, while he was a top 25 recruit again anybody with half a brain KNEW he was coming with some BAGGAGE. If you watched him during the AAU circuit and how he cursed a ref out or walk off the court doing play, but yet they put all their eggs in that basket. Now as for recruiting a BACKUP point guard doing that period well if they couldnt see that Ryan Francis was better than Ben Voogd then that equals ineptitude. And recruiting is not about WHAT the OTHER schools offer a kid, its about filling YOUR needs with the best kids available. As for Greg Monroe, believe me that kid had absolutely no interest in LSU, and if you talk to his mother she would have no problem telling u that. And one other thing i think the Tiger program will improve on, and that is ATTRITION. And also for my marbles i would take TJ over JB any day of the week. Give TJ the same team with Big Baby and Tyrus and our chances of winning INCREASES.
Posted on 6/14/09 at 11:29 am to tiger20
quote:
You can throw up the Ryan Francis issue, but he may have had academic issues or other personal issues that made the staff shy away from him. Until Tim Floyd was named USC coach and signed Francis during the summer in a somewhat desperation move, Francis had no other major offers. So why didn't all of the other great coaches recruit him.
something tells me voogd and alex farrer had less impressive offer resumes than francis
Posted on 6/15/09 at 10:05 am to TeamLSU
You can't build a winning basketball program with single season players; however, a one-and-done talent can help get a strong team to the next level.
Just don't mistake LSU with perennial basketball powers like Michigan St. or UCONN.
Just don't mistake LSU with perennial basketball powers like Michigan St. or UCONN.
Posted on 6/15/09 at 10:23 am to Bad Cat
Bad Cat-I agree with you on that statement. But what i'm saying is that Michigan St. and UCONN programs are NOT built around one and dones or a bunch of McDonalds AA players on their rosters. And if TJ can lock down the state and pluck a few from the south region, i think the Tigers can attain a very high level of post-season play. Of course, personally I wouldn't turn down a player that maybe is one and done, but as you mentioned, its not the best case scenario for the PROGRAM. For a season it is, but not the PROGRAM.
Posted on 6/16/09 at 1:36 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
something tells me voogd and alex farrer had less impressive offer resumes than francis
No he didn't.
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