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Message
Weird Electrical Utility Company issue
Posted on 1/11/23 at 4:25 pm
Posted on 1/11/23 at 4:25 pm
I had a rental property with a dryer and stove issue. Dryer wouldn't start and Oven threw PF error in certain modes. Dryer had power, but if you started it then it immediately shut down. Brought over a new dryer, same exact thing. Brought over a third dryer, same exact thing. Ok, not an appliance issue.
AC worked normally, everything else in house worked normally.
Changed breaker and outlet on dryer, same thing.
Utility company came out, checked out good. Electrician came out, and found nothing. 240 and 120V everywhere, no major drops in the voltage. They thought it was maybe a loose/ bad connection between the breaker panel and the meter at a junction somewhere causing a resistance issue and loss of amps (lingo maybe bad). But needed to come back out with a 2 man crew to figure it out.
This issue continued for over a week. Weather changed from cold to hot and issue continued.
Magically, everything started working again. Oven no more PF error, Dryer no more issue. Continues to work normal.
So, WTF? We assumed it was an amp/ resistance issue somewhere. But why would the rest of house work normally? No other known issues in the neighborhood. Called utility company back and who knows what customer service could look at, but said there was no other work down in the neighborhood.
ETA; Assumption by electrician and me is it was some sort of supply issue from utility company, that was fixed? By why would other homes not have the issue and why would the electrical company not know?
AC worked normally, everything else in house worked normally.
Changed breaker and outlet on dryer, same thing.
Utility company came out, checked out good. Electrician came out, and found nothing. 240 and 120V everywhere, no major drops in the voltage. They thought it was maybe a loose/ bad connection between the breaker panel and the meter at a junction somewhere causing a resistance issue and loss of amps (lingo maybe bad). But needed to come back out with a 2 man crew to figure it out.
This issue continued for over a week. Weather changed from cold to hot and issue continued.
Magically, everything started working again. Oven no more PF error, Dryer no more issue. Continues to work normal.
So, WTF? We assumed it was an amp/ resistance issue somewhere. But why would the rest of house work normally? No other known issues in the neighborhood. Called utility company back and who knows what customer service could look at, but said there was no other work down in the neighborhood.
ETA; Assumption by electrician and me is it was some sort of supply issue from utility company, that was fixed? By why would other homes not have the issue and why would the electrical company not know?
This post was edited on 1/11/23 at 4:32 pm
5
Posted on 1/11/23 at 5:20 pm to baldona
We have 2-100 amp circuit breakers upstream of the meter where I am. Have seen similar issues when one of the 100 amp breakers started going bad. It would start having fluctuations in amps instead of the consistent 100 Amps.
Posted on 1/11/23 at 5:46 pm to baldona
The ac working normally is throwing me off, because otherwise it just sounds like a phase dropped between the pole and the meter
Posted on 1/12/23 at 11:05 pm to baldona
It could be a loose neutral on the dryer circuit.
Losing a leg from the utility would cause other parts of the house to stop working
A loose neutral in the utility service wire would cause flickering lights and "power surges"
Losing a leg from the utility would cause other parts of the house to stop working
A loose neutral in the utility service wire would cause flickering lights and "power surges"
Posted on 1/13/23 at 8:04 am to baldona
I had a similar issue at my secondary residence (deer camp). I have my 5th wheel that runs on 50 amp service. Well, when I checked voltage at the plug, I would get 120 per leg, 240 combined, which is what I should be getting. I also have a regular 120 plug there at my service loop. My voltage at that plug was at 120, which is where it should be. But, when I would plug in and if anything was on/running, the voltage would sag waaaaaay down.
I had my Dewalt electric heat gun plugged in and I would check my voltage drop. When not on, I'd get 120, as soon as I'd turn it on, my voltage dropped down to 17 volts! That ain't good. I knew everything was good on my end, so I called the local Entergy baw, and he was there in about 30-45 minutes to check everything.
He did a load test at the meter head. Basically, they take your meter head out, plug this load testing head in that simulates a load and the tech will watch the voltage.
Come to find out, there was a loose neutral in the transformer pot. Problem solved.
I had my Dewalt electric heat gun plugged in and I would check my voltage drop. When not on, I'd get 120, as soon as I'd turn it on, my voltage dropped down to 17 volts! That ain't good. I knew everything was good on my end, so I called the local Entergy baw, and he was there in about 30-45 minutes to check everything.
He did a load test at the meter head. Basically, they take your meter head out, plug this load testing head in that simulates a load and the tech will watch the voltage.
Come to find out, there was a loose neutral in the transformer pot. Problem solved.
Posted on 1/13/23 at 11:26 am to Arkapigdiesel
I asked the Utility company to run a load test and again I'm not super knowledgeable here, but he said the transformer out of the ground split to go to 2 meters. The load test at the transformer would be done on both. So he didn't think it would make sense to do that? Or maybe he didn't want to do it and test out the other house also?
Either way though, everything is back to normal now. No explaination.
We had the issue for about a week. Its now been over a week. I'm just scratching my head on why it would last so long and then go back to working without issue.
Either way though, everything is back to normal now. No explaination.
We had the issue for about a week. Its now been over a week. I'm just scratching my head on why it would last so long and then go back to working without issue.
Posted on 1/13/23 at 11:30 am to TimeOutdoors
quote:
We have 2-100 amp circuit breakers upstream of the meter where I am. Have seen similar issues when one of the 100 amp breakers started going bad. It would start having fluctuations in amps instead of the consistent 100 Amps.
When you say going bad, how did you know? None of the breakers are "breaking" which my understanding is the usually issue.
Its also possible the 200Amp breaker at the meter is "going bad".
When we tested it the other day and the AC's were working along with the stove and dryer, no one was home so there weren't lights, tv's, etc on.
If it wasn't the utility company, my other thought is that maybe there's an issue with the main breaker over say 75 amps. With only those items being used at the time it wasn't going over a certain amp load?
Posted on 1/13/23 at 8:14 pm to Cracker
Only happened the one time. But was out for a week. It’s working normal now.
I’m just worried it’s either a fire hazard or going to come back.
I’m just worried it’s either a fire hazard or going to come back.
Posted on 1/14/23 at 2:59 pm to baldona
quote:
It could be a loose neutral on the dryer circuit.
A 240V dryer doesn't have a neutral. It'll have two hots (240V between them) and a ground (EDIT: see correction in a later response). But the neutral and the ground bond at the panel so if it was a neutral/ground issue, you should see it in more than one place.
quote:
I asked the Utility company to run a load test and again I'm not super knowledgeable here, but he said the transformer out of the ground split to go to 2 meters. The load test at the transformer would be done on both. So he didn't think it would make sense to do that? Or maybe he didn't want to do it and test out the other house also?
Yes, it sounds to me like he just wants to avoid having to test both houses if they share a transformer.
One other thing you could try is feeding your dryer from a different location. If you have any empty spaces (no breaker) or spares (unused breaker) maybe you could move that breaker to a different spot and see if the issue shows up again. Sounds like there could be a bad connection on the bus bar inside your panel if changing the breaker did not help.
If you don't have any spare space in the panel to move the breaker, try swapping the breakers that feed your A/C and dryer. If the wires are routed/bent in a way that makes it difficult, temporarily use some wire nuts and the same size wires to make jumpers to each breaker. But, if this isn't something you're comfortable with, call your electrician and suggest this to get his thoughts.
This post was edited on 1/15/23 at 12:23 pm
Posted on 1/15/23 at 6:30 am to bapple
I appreciate the input.
The oven was throwing a PF error the week this happened also.
Now both the dryer and oven are working normally. So I don’t think it was related to between the breaker and the units.
I never tested the AC unit for a load, I simply turned it on. I heard the blower working. I didn’t go beyond that. The weather was in the 60s as a high that week so it wasn’t really needed. So it’s possible the AC was only working with low amps? Again IdK.
The microwave also worked without issue. As well as everything else with 120V.
The oven was throwing a PF error the week this happened also.
Now both the dryer and oven are working normally. So I don’t think it was related to between the breaker and the units.
I never tested the AC unit for a load, I simply turned it on. I heard the blower working. I didn’t go beyond that. The weather was in the 60s as a high that week so it wasn’t really needed. So it’s possible the AC was only working with low amps? Again IdK.
The microwave also worked without issue. As well as everything else with 120V.
Posted on 1/15/23 at 8:11 am to bapple
quote:
A 240V dryer doesn't have a neutral. It'll have two hots (240V between them) and a ground.
Any dryer from the 90’s on has a neutral
Posted on 1/15/23 at 12:21 pm to bee Rye
quote:
Any dryer from the 90’s on has a neutral
Maybe I’m confusing it with the 240V cooktop I just took out of my island. So it uses a 3C cable instead of a 2C? I have a natural gas dryer so only 120V needed for me.
Thanks for the correction.
Posted on 1/15/23 at 3:51 pm to baldona
quote:
When you say going bad, how did you know?
Tested it during one of the times I was having issues with the appliances and it was fluctuating between 30-90 amps.
Posted on 1/15/23 at 10:10 pm to bapple
quote:
Maybe I’m confusing it with the 240V cooktop I just took out of my island. So it uses a 3C cable instead of a 2C?
Yes, but also any electric cooktop from the 90’s on will be have a neutral as well
Posted on 1/18/23 at 10:25 pm to bee Rye
quote:
Yes, but also any electric cooktop from the 90’s on will be have a neutral as well
Mine must predate that because I only had a 2C #10 w/GND. House built in 1987 so it barely checks out.
Posted on 1/19/23 at 1:14 pm to bapple
quote:
Maybe I’m confusing it with the 240V cooktop I just took out of my island. So it uses a 3C cable instead of a 2C? I have a natural gas dryer so only 120V needed for me.
Thanks for the correction.
Nuetral on the drier is for the 120 volt controls. Before about 1995 the ground wire was suitable for use as a nuetral for the 120 volt controls but that changed and now new driers have a 4 conductor configuration including a nuetral and a ground wire. Cooktops without any kind of timer or fan would most likely not have any controls, and depending on age, may only have 2 conductors although a new one would have 3.
Posted on 1/19/23 at 1:16 pm to bee Rye
quote:
Any dryer from the 90’s on has a neutral
Even ones prior to that had 110 volt controls and the ground wire was used as a nuetral. It will still work in an older home where there is a 3 wire circuity but the drier has a 4 wire pigtail and the outlet is the modern 4 wire outlet.
Posted on 1/20/23 at 12:47 pm to AwgustaDawg
quote:
Nuetral on the drier is for the 120 volt controls.
Makes sense. I didn't know if it had a 120V control circuit or if maybe there was a CPT to drop to 24V for the controls.
quote:
Cooktops without any kind of timer or fan would most likely not have any controls, and depending on age, may only have 2 conductors although a new one would have 3.
The one I took out only had a 2C cable and didn't have a timer or downdraft fan so that makes sense. I was easily able to reuse that cable for 120V after moving some stuff around.
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