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Started By
Message
AFCI Breaker Issue *SOLVED*
Posted on 2/23/21 at 6:12 pm
Posted on 2/23/21 at 6:12 pm
A new computer is tripping a Siemens AFCI 15 amp breaker as soon as I press the power button. I purchased a UPS to try to eliminate the issue but it's persistent. I swapped out the power supply on the computer but the issue continues. The computer is in a bedroom being used as an office (and there are no plans of it ever being used as a bedroom).
Two questions:
1) Can I simply swap this AFCI breaker with a normal breaker to eliminate the spurious trip?
2) Am I going outside of electrical code with this bedroom-turned-office if I swap to a normal 15 amp breaker?
Thanks.
Two questions:
1) Can I simply swap this AFCI breaker with a normal breaker to eliminate the spurious trip?
2) Am I going outside of electrical code with this bedroom-turned-office if I swap to a normal 15 amp breaker?
Thanks.
This post was edited on 3/19/21 at 5:05 pm
8
Posted on 2/23/21 at 6:45 pm to RoyalWe
Popcorn. I have two of f those sons of bitches that trip if I so much even look at the outlets they control in the garage. I can't plug a fricking nightlight into them without throwing the breaker.
Posted on 2/23/21 at 6:58 pm to RoyalWe
quote:
1) Can I simply swap this AFCI breaker with a normal breaker to eliminate the spurious trip?
Yes.
quote:
2) Am I going outside of electrical code with this bedroom-turned-office if I swap to a normal 15 amp breaker?
Yes, but no one will ever know unless you sell the place and have a home inspector that actually touches the panel, thatd be a first.
That being said, it could be a bad breaker. They were notoriously bad when they first came out.
Posted on 2/23/21 at 6:59 pm to RoyalWe
Try to plug your computer in on another circuit that is also an arc fault and see if it trips again if the next one trips it’s more than likely a problem somewhere with your computer
ETA:
ETA:
quote:yes they were bad when they first came out but they pretty much have all the issues worked out on the newer ones
They were notoriously bad when they first came out.
This post was edited on 2/23/21 at 7:02 pm
Posted on 2/24/21 at 6:28 am to RoyalWe
I have the same freaking problem. It's connected to my smoke alarm so whenever it trips, the smoke alarm goes off. It just recently went off and I went to turn it back on like I've done on many other occasions and it wouldn't stay on. Therefore, I assume it's bad. I put a call in with the electrician who installed the panel a few years back but I haven't heard back from him.
Is this something that I can replace like a regular breaker? That extra ground wire has me a little spooked.
Is this something that I can replace like a regular breaker? That extra ground wire has me a little spooked.
Posted on 2/24/21 at 7:28 am to MMauler
You can, it is all about your comfort level though.
What was recommended to me as a novice.
Kill all the breakers in the panel
Kill the main breaker coming in
Replace the breaker
Power on the main breaker
Power on the individual circuits
Apparently there is no real issue hot swapping them or with throwing the main with all the breakers on, but there are risk factors that aren't necessary for a novice.
Took me just a few minutes. Replaced with a regular breaker since I thought the AFCI was bad. Turns out the AFCI was actually correct and I ended up popping the traditional breaker later with a bit of a light show.
Finally fixed my problem this past week.
my dealings with tracing the AFCI
Turns out that piece of romex on the bottom right is run under the house from the outlet on the left to the outlet on the right. So likely when the foundation work was done the wire was sandwiched or shot.
What was recommended to me as a novice.
Kill all the breakers in the panel
Kill the main breaker coming in
Replace the breaker
Power on the main breaker
Power on the individual circuits
Apparently there is no real issue hot swapping them or with throwing the main with all the breakers on, but there are risk factors that aren't necessary for a novice.
Took me just a few minutes. Replaced with a regular breaker since I thought the AFCI was bad. Turns out the AFCI was actually correct and I ended up popping the traditional breaker later with a bit of a light show.
Finally fixed my problem this past week.
my dealings with tracing the AFCI
Turns out that piece of romex on the bottom right is run under the house from the outlet on the left to the outlet on the right. So likely when the foundation work was done the wire was sandwiched or shot.
This post was edited on 2/24/21 at 7:36 am
Posted on 2/24/21 at 7:39 am to fightin tigers
Thanks!
I'll give it a shot this weekend. From watching a few videos, I ordered a hot wire pen tester just to make sure everything is off.
I'll give it a shot this weekend. From watching a few videos, I ordered a hot wire pen tester just to make sure everything is off.
Posted on 2/24/21 at 8:08 am to MMauler
If just using a pen tester be extra cautious. They are decently reliable, but can give false reading. A decent multimeter, even one from Harbor Freight, is good insurance to have that you have no power.
A pen is easier to use though if you are worried about the know how side. Just know there are some limitations.
A pen is easier to use though if you are worried about the know how side. Just know there are some limitations.
Posted on 2/24/21 at 8:33 am to MMauler
quote:you can take it out and put in a regular breaker.
this something that I can replace like a regular breaker? That extra ground wire has me a little spooked.
Posted on 2/24/21 at 9:58 am to RoyalWe
Have you tried plugging the computer in on other AFCI protected circuits? That would let you know if the arc is happening due to the computer or to something else
quote:current code requires AFCI protection in an office as well if you are in Louisiana
The computer is in a bedroom being used as an office (and there are no plans of it ever being used as a bedroom).
quote:that being said, yeah, you can do this, but I would still troubleshoot further to make sure the arc is due to the computer and not another underlying issue
1) Can I simply swap this AFCI breaker with a normal breaker to eliminate the spurious trip?
Posted on 2/24/21 at 10:01 am to papasmurf1269
quote:yeah, first gen had about a 5% defective rate. that number is around .02% now
yes they were bad when they first came out but they pretty much have all the issues worked out on the newer ones
eta: my guess is about half of the ones that are currently coming back as defective are actually working as intended and are thought to be bad due to external issues, usually an old vacuum cleaner
This post was edited on 2/24/21 at 10:04 am
Posted on 2/24/21 at 12:36 pm to bee Rye
quote:vacuum cleaners is what we had the most problems with when arc faults first came out
usually an old vacuum cleaner
Posted on 2/26/21 at 7:44 am to RoyalWe
Just wanted to say thanks for all of the replies. I've been too busy to do anything with it except I can share that the computer also tripped a GFCI circuit. Since I've used a computer of similar power supply and power loading in that spot for years with no issue, I'm fairly certain it is something about the new computer that is causing the issue. I've never had a computer have a short where the computer actually still worked. So, I'm unsure what to think. I'm leaning toward swapping the breaker so I will probably try another AFCI circuit just to confirm it still trips and from that decide what type of breaker to buy.
Thanks again.
Thanks again.
Posted on 2/27/21 at 3:34 pm to RoyalWe
Update:
I bought a 15 amp breaker of the same type used in my panel. I de-energized the panel and upon my pulling the AFCI breaker I notice that the AFCI has two wires and not the single wire that a normal breaker has. Makes sense given what the AFCI is supposed to do, but I sure didn't think about it before taking the panel door off. So, I put everything back together and now I guess I'll have to buy an AFCI breaker and hope it behaves differently or I'll have to figure out what to do with that other wire. My guess is 'nothing' because it's probably going to ground, but not being an electrical guy I didn't want to do it without knowing exactly what I'm doing. If anyone knows, please advise, but I'll start searching for the answer now. Thanks for reading.
EDIT: I ordered a QAF2 version of the breaker as the QAF (what I have) is not listed anywhere. I assume this is the older breaker that people said was a problem. I'm hoping the QAF2 version works. Will let everyone know. Should be delivered tomorrow.
I bought a 15 amp breaker of the same type used in my panel. I de-energized the panel and upon my pulling the AFCI breaker I notice that the AFCI has two wires and not the single wire that a normal breaker has. Makes sense given what the AFCI is supposed to do, but I sure didn't think about it before taking the panel door off. So, I put everything back together and now I guess I'll have to buy an AFCI breaker and hope it behaves differently or I'll have to figure out what to do with that other wire. My guess is 'nothing' because it's probably going to ground, but not being an electrical guy I didn't want to do it without knowing exactly what I'm doing. If anyone knows, please advise, but I'll start searching for the answer now. Thanks for reading.
EDIT: I ordered a QAF2 version of the breaker as the QAF (what I have) is not listed anywhere. I assume this is the older breaker that people said was a problem. I'm hoping the QAF2 version works. Will let everyone know. Should be delivered tomorrow.
This post was edited on 2/27/21 at 4:08 pm
Posted on 2/27/21 at 7:22 pm to RoyalWe
The breaker had a black and white wire attached?
The white wire just makes up to the neutral bar
The white wire just makes up to the neutral bar
This post was edited on 2/27/21 at 7:24 pm
Posted on 2/27/21 at 8:48 pm to papasmurf1269
Yes, and that was my assumption. At the time I didn't want to be rushed since I only know enough to be dangerous but now I figure it's best to go ahead and try the newer version of the AFCI first. If this doesn't work then I'll go back with it.
Posted on 2/27/21 at 8:56 pm to RoyalWe
Well, depending on what type of panel you have some of the newer arc faults don’t even have the white wire. It’s just a regular looking breaker then when it snaps on to the bus it does what it does
Posted on 2/28/21 at 9:29 am to papasmurf1269
quote:
Well, depending on what type of panel you have some of the newer arc faults don’t even have the white wire. It’s just a regular looking breaker then when it snaps on to the bus it does what it does
Doesn’t sound like he has a plug on neutral. The types he listed out are the original Siemens AF and the combination AF
Posted on 3/7/21 at 9:32 am to bee Rye
quote:Okay, gang. I'm still fighting this due to my ignorance. I've bought a 'normal' 15 amp Siemens breaker which has a single wire connection. This is consistent with the other 'normal' breakers in my panel which leads me to believe I have a 'plug on neutral' type breaker panel. What is driving me nuts is that the only AFCI breakers I can find have a pigtail for 'neutral on panel'. I'm 99% certain when I had the cover off of the panel that there were only two wires going into the AFCI breaker -- meaning there was no pigtail for 'neutral on panel'.
Doesn’t sound like he has a plug on neutral. The types he listed out are the original Siemens AF and the combination AF
Is it possible that the AFCI breaker is both a 'plug on neutral' and they provide the pigtail in case the panel is not a 'plug on neutral' type of panel? In other words, I can just cut the pigtail off and install the breaker and I'm good?
Thanks.
Posted on 3/7/21 at 2:54 pm to RoyalWe
Even if you have the plug on neutral type panel you should still be able to use that arc fault breaker that has the neutral attached to it. Just plug the breaker in on the bus and attach the wire to the neutral bar.
I have never actually had to do this but logic tells me that it should still work.
I have never actually had to do this but logic tells me that it should still work.
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