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re: Triathlon/Ironman/Half Iron Man Thread

Posted on 1/23/25 at 2:56 pm to
Posted by goldennugget
NIL Ruined College Sports
Member since Jul 2013
26286 posts
Posted on 1/23/25 at 2:56 pm to
Chiming in because I am a 6x Ironman and IMWC qualifier. Love helping people out with this stuff as I want to do my part to grow the sport.

Many will say to do a shorter event before your 70.3 but I don't think its necessary - I went straight to full Ironman for my first tri. The first time I did a shorter distance was a 70.3 after I had already done 3 Ironmans, and I never felt the need to do a shorter distance during my first Ironman.

There are 2 ways to do a 70.3, compete or complete, since its your first I suggest complete. That doesn't mean you have to half arse it and take your time, still push yourself but I've always said your real first race is your 2nd one because you apply all the lessons you learned in the 1st one. There are a lot of things you can only learn by experience in a race, that you can't prepare for until you have been through it.

The swim is what scares most people for their first race, and Des Moines is a lake swim so you won't get the benefit of a current or anything like that to make it easier. Extra time in the pool helps, it will help you swim faster and the recovery time is less than it is than for biking or running. It's easy to say you will stick to a certain pace or effort before you get in the water, but upon getting in the water you'll find that you want to get out as quickly as possible because you are having to swim around a bunch of other swimmers who are blocking, getting in your way, or swimming over you. This is something you can't train or prepare for. I always suggest lining up in a corral slightly faster than what you think you can do so you can draft off of slightly better swimmers.

Transitions are another one of those things I suggest you take your time with for your first race - you can practice faster transitions in later races. Coming out of the water you'll probably be a bit rattled, disoriented and wobbly legged. Take a second to compose yourself in transition.

The bike is where most people, whether it be first timers or seasoned veterans, ruin their race. This is where I strongly suggest having a power meter. Most people go way too hard on the bike. You'll see people at the start giving their all out sprint triathlon efforts - ignore them. Pick a set average normalized power number and don't go over it. Des Moines has some rollers - the hillier the bike - the easier it is to spike up your normalized power. Coming out of the water, with tapered legs full of glycogen from a carb load, you are going to feel like Lance Armstrong at the beginning of the bike and feel you can push high wattage forever. This is a lie and its why so many people ruin their race on the bike and cook themselves. Yes, they may still be moving forward, but they are no longer racing. I've been here in a full Ironman - I feel every person who has done a long distance triathlon has experienced this at least once - you don't want to be here. It sucks. It makes the rest of the race miserable. At my last 70.3 I chose to hit 224 NP on the bike which represented about ~83% of my FTP and ended right at 223. Fortunately, for a 70.3 its a shorter distance so the punishment for overbiking isn't as drastic as it is with a full.

Your run will 100% be dictated by how well you executed your bike leg, not just in terms of keeping your normalized power in check, but also nutrition. I've done two 70.3's and I felt the run was particularly easy. Granted running is my strength, I had the 9th best run at my first 70.3 and the 5th best run at my 2nd 70.3 - but I nailed the run because I nailed the bike. Ironman and 70.3 run courses are filled with walkers who went too hard on the bike. I pace my Ironman and 70.3 runs by heart rate, not an average pace. For a 70.3 I generally shoot for an upper Zone 3/lower Zone 4 effort. My threshold heart rate is 174, so I try to target an average heart rate around 165-168, with the lower end of the range at the start and upper end at the end. I've yet to bonk or run out of gas at either of my 70.3 runs with this approach, but again it all begins with your bike execution. This is the biggest difference between a 70.3 and a full. I feel I've only been able to execute a flawless Ironman run once out of 6 tries, where I've been 100% successful in my 70.3s. There is a wall you hit around Mile 16-18 even if you feel you paced the bike properly and nailed your nutrition - but fortunately at a 70.3 you don't get that high.

Nutrition is the other thing you have to nail. Fortunately for a 70.3 your margin for error is a lot larger than for a full. Keep it simple. 100% carbs only. I go with powdered gatorade mixed with sodium citrate for the bike and the on course Maurten gels for the run. I've trained my stomach to be able to handle 110-120g of carbs per hour on the bike. Start at 60g and go up from there in your training. For the run its 1 gel every 3-4 miles. I've yet to deal with any stomach pain or discomfort using this approach. People who deal with stomach pain or discomfort get there by either overfueling or eating the wrong foods. It's why I suggest keeping it simple with 100% easily digestible carbs. Stay away from anything solid such as gummies or bars. Anything with fat and protein will only slow your digestion down and cause stomach issues. Foods with fat and protein can wait until afterward. Also I try to target about 1200mg of sodium per hour, which is why I supplement my gatorade with sodium citrate and Nuun tablets on the run.

As far as training is concerned, the more time you spend in the pool the better of a swimmer you will become. I hired a coach after my 3rd Ironman and she helped me go from about 1:42/100y in a full Ironman swim to 1:32/100y in my most recent Ironman. It's just a 10 second improvement but progress in the pool comes very slowly once you reach a certain point. Also, that 1:42 pace swim I did at an average heart rate in the 170s, my 1:32 pace swim my average heart rate was 152. I became faster AND more efficient.

The best way to get better at running is actually to bike more. It took me a while to learn this - I thought more running = better run during a longer distance race which is true for stand alone road races - but since your run in a long distance tri is dictated by your bike execution, the better of a biker you are the stronger your legs will be for the run. More time in the saddle is always a good idea, but still get 3-4 runs in per week.

2 weeks out I suggest doing a race sim of sorts. Bike the entire 56 miles at the same effort you plan on giving for the race, and do a 45 minute run off the bike at your planned run effort. This will give you an idea of where you stand and if your bike strategy is too ambitious.

I am here to help - myself I have 3 Ironmans on the calendar this year and two 70.3s (may add a 3rd). My goal is to qualify for Kona at Ironman Wisconsin in September.
Posted by goldennugget
NIL Ruined College Sports
Member since Jul 2013
26286 posts
Posted on 1/23/25 at 3:03 pm to
quote:

I don’t have a trainer, but I live on White Rock Lake in Dallas so I plan on doing as much of my riding outside as possible.

It’s freezing today so I’m going to ride the C2 bike, which is not ideal, but it should work for now. Weather will turn soon anyway, but even this weekend it’s supposed to be about 60 so I should have ample opportunity to get enough rides in before June and I’ll just supplement with the stationary as needed.


I think a trainer is the best investment one can make. I trained 100% outdoors for my first Ironman (even did some rides around White Rock Lake which I think sucks for biking). I got a trainer before I began training for my 2nd. For me the benefits of a trainer are limiting wear and tear on your bike (I got in way too many crashes) and being able to do higher wattage workouts effectively. Without a trainer I would have to find long stretches of low traffic, uninterrupted road to go ride at to do interval or tempo rides. My only outdoor rides these days are long rides 3 hours or more on the weekend.

I ran at White Rock Lake last weekend and the bozos who ride around that loop acting like they are in the Tour de France drive me nuts. I could never do a ride that required any kind of intensity among a path that sees that much pedestrian traffic.
Posted by goldennugget
NIL Ruined College Sports
Member since Jul 2013
26286 posts
Posted on 1/23/25 at 3:06 pm to
quote:

Just ran my first half marathon, no problem. I’m not a strong swimmer. Can probably swim like 100m before I need a break. Realistically if I started focusing on swimming how long would it take for me to get the swim distance down and actually start training for a half Ironman?



I started at absolute zero in the pool in April 2022 and did my first swim of 2,100 yards straight (the 70.3 distance) in about 10 weeks. Progress will come slow at first but one day it will click. My time for my first Ironman in October 2022, 6 months after I started from zero, was 1:14, or 1:44/100 yard pace.

I recommend the 0 to 1650 plan to start. It's what I used the first few weeks of my training.
Posted by Mingo Was His NameO
Brooklyn
Member since Mar 2016
37272 posts
Posted on 1/23/25 at 4:16 pm to
quote:

I think a trainer is the best investment one can make.


I’ll buy one if I decide to continue to do tri’s. I’m going to train my arse off in the 6 months I have, but I’m more learning and seeing if I like it for now. I know some people that have trainers, I may see if I can borrow one
Posted by JL
Member since Aug 2006
3208 posts
Posted on 1/23/25 at 5:47 pm to
LINK

This training plan?
Posted by Mingo Was His NameO
Brooklyn
Member since Mar 2016
37272 posts
Posted on 1/23/25 at 6:48 pm to
quote:

goldennugget


How much weight lifting you doing baw? I’m ideally going to get 3 days a week in of just the big lifts and a small amount of accessories. Don’t want to lose too much strength
Posted by goldennugget
NIL Ruined College Sports
Member since Jul 2013
26286 posts
Posted on 1/24/25 at 9:53 am to
quote:

I’ll buy one if I decide to continue to do tri’s. I’m going to train my arse off in the 6 months I have, but I’m more learning and seeing if I like it for now. I know some people that have trainers, I may see if I can borrow one



I trained for my first full Ironman 100% outdoors - but it was in the summertime so weather wasn't as much of a factor (although I did this in the summer of 2022 so it was hot as balls for most of June and July)

Once I decided I was going to keep doing triathlons I bought a tri bike. Planned on doing 100% outdoor bike training for Ironman #2, but in the first week of training I got hit by a car, had to cancel a ride due to bad weather, and ran over a cat in the middle of the road that jumped out infront of me that caused me to crash and do $800 of damage to my new tri bike. Bought a trainer after that week from hell.
Posted by goldennugget
NIL Ruined College Sports
Member since Jul 2013
26286 posts
Posted on 1/24/25 at 9:54 am to
quote:

LINK

This training plan?


Yeah thats the one. Follow it to a T and don't cut corners. There may be some intervals that you struggle in and can't complete but its all part of the process.
Posted by goldennugget
NIL Ruined College Sports
Member since Jul 2013
26286 posts
Posted on 1/24/25 at 9:58 am to
quote:

How much weight lifting you doing baw? I’m ideally going to get 3 days a week in of just the big lifts and a small amount of accessories. Don’t want to lose too much strength



I hardly lift at all anymore. Before triathlons I was a 6 days a week in the gym person. But my training volume is very high, 20+ hours a week of swim/bike/run and the downtime I do have I prioritize recovery. Any lifting I do is minimal and purely maintenance and mental. I might do a quick set of chest/shoulders/tris or back/biceps/bis after a swim, some ab exercises, but nothing major.

I haven't lost that much mass. Lost strength? Sure but in terms of size my upper body isn't as big as it was, but I haven't lost much. Swimming allows you to retain upper body mass since every part of the upper body is used. And my legs have absolutely blown up from all the biking I do. My legs and calves are much larger than they were when I dead lifted and squatted.

If my swim/bike/run volume wasn't so high I'd spend more time lifting weights, but I am maxed out time wise. During a triathlon build I am biking 5x per week, swimming 3-4x per week and running 4-5x per week. That on top of work means any downtime is spent sleeping or doing recovery things like stretching or hip mobility
Posted by Jon A thon
Member since May 2019
2405 posts
Posted on 1/24/25 at 10:05 am to
I was hit by a car in college, so always nervous on the road. But I enjoyed cycling so much, I did it. Training for my IM, saw a training partner come very close to getting hit. Plus race was in April and training in Jan and Feb was not the best weather. So lots of time on trainer road and swift. That near accident was actually my last road ride outside of races. Granted I took my perpetual break ahortly after. My coach considered 45 min on the trainer equal to 1hr on the road. So there a time savings when you have long workouts. But it SUCKS. My last long ride was a 4 hr ride on the trainer down in aero position. Made the ride on race day seem easy. I started with a $99 trainer. It doesn’t have to be super expensive. Very hard to do prescribed workouts with the variables on the road. I think it’s a worthwhile investment if at all serious.
Posted by 13233
Hattiesburg, MS
Member since Aug 2016
81 posts
Posted on 1/24/25 at 12:24 pm to
Lots of solid advice from people with more experience than me in this thread. I was a marathon runner who ventured into triathlon four years ago (in my late 40s at the time). I did a sprint as a practice for a 70.3 and have stayed at that 70.3 distance for my races ever since. I still sprinkle in some running races in the winter. My next 70.3 race will be in September.

Someone in this thread said take your first 70.3 race as basically one big learning experience with the goal of just completing it. I second that. Despite training very hard and following a plan to prepare nearly perfectly, I decided to just take my first 70.3 race slow, practice gratitude, enjoy the moment, encourage those around me and basically ignore my watch while on the course. Despite the temps rising into the high 90s, that whole race experience was basically one of the happiest, most freeing days I have had in my adult life. I say this as someone who has a good life going, with two great kids, a great job, and a marriage of 26 years to my best friend. If I could wish something for you or anybody in this sport, it would be to have a race day like that.

And yes, as someone else pointed out, I did learn from that first race day and that helped me change up my training and my race strategies going forward. I have gotten better/faster with each race since then and I think there is a very good chance that I will improve my time again this year. But I am 52 and know the window to see continued time improvements will eventually end. As a pretty competitive person, that thought used to bother me, but if it means trying future race days without a watch again… that doesn’t seem so bad to me at all anymore.

This sport is a lifestyle. The races are just moments. Have fun with it. Thank those family members and friends that will give you space to train. It’s a lot. Maybe also consider giving thanks to God that you are so blessed as to be able to even try to go do this crazy, awesome thing.

You got this.





Posted by goldennugget
NIL Ruined College Sports
Member since Jul 2013
26286 posts
Posted on 1/24/25 at 1:22 pm to
quote:

I was hit by a car in college, so always nervous on the road. But I enjoyed cycling so much, I did it. Training for my IM, saw a training partner come very close to getting hit. Plus race was in April and training in Jan and Feb was not the best weather. So lots of time on trainer road and swift. That near accident was actually my last road ride outside of races. Granted I took my perpetual break ahortly after. My coach considered 45 min on the trainer equal to 1hr on the road. So there a time savings when you have long workouts. But it SUCKS. My last long ride was a 4 hr ride on the trainer down in aero position. Made the ride on race day seem easy. I started with a $99 trainer. It doesn’t have to be super expensive. Very hard to do prescribed workouts with the variables on the road. I think it’s a worthwhile investment if at all serious.



I got hit by cars a few times when training for my first full. A lot of it was more inexperience and riding on roads I shouldn't have been more than anything, but still no excuse for cars to hit me. In fact two of my accidents happened when I was in a bike lane. A truck hit me in the back of the helmet with the passenger side mirror and sent me tumbling over the front handlebars when he got too close. Another vehicle was on their phone and drifted into the bike lane I was in and sent me down as I had no choice but to manually crash to avoid a worse collision. My worst accident was when I was riding and a car drifted across the center line into my lane and I had to eject from my bike to avoid a head on collision. Landed on my back and for a while I thought it was broken. Paramedics showed up and it was just badly bruised. Fortunately I was able to escape any bad injuries each time and only came away with bad scrapes and bruises.

Eventually I learned which roads were good to ride on in the DFW area, and also learned that it was best to ride outdoors early in the morning on weekends where there was less traffic. Any mid meek non early morning rides I would do on trails or low trafficked roads. Bought a radar which was a must.

Miami, where I live now, is so much worse than DFW in terms of biking. I refuse to ride anywhere near the city because the drivers are so bad and there are way too many lights/stop signs. Biking here also sucks because there is no variety of terrain - its either flat route east, flat route north, flat route west or flat route east. I miss making custom routes in DFW with varying elevation and terrain and geography. I only ride outdoors for rides over 3 hours early on Saturday or Sunday mornings and drive out to rural roads such as the Everglades, Key Largo or A1A north of Fort Lauderdale. I've even logged some 4 hour trainer rides which I would NEVER do in DFW because eventually the same flat boring routes get old. Hate being on the trainer that long though.

Only been hit once in Miami but thats because I avoid traffic. A car turned left into my lane when I had a green light at an intersection and I slammed into the side. Made a huge dent in it, was a red Audi. It drove off.
Posted by goldennugget
NIL Ruined College Sports
Member since Jul 2013
26286 posts
Posted on 1/24/25 at 1:29 pm to
quote:

Despite the temps rising into the high 90s, that whole race experience was basically one of the happiest, most freeing days I have had in my adult life.


My first triathlon of any kind was the infamous Ironman Waco in 2022 also referred to as the Bloodbath on the Brazos. It set and still holds the all time Ironman record for highest % of DNF. 31% didn't finish that day. I talked to the race director and she said about 250 people who picked up their bib at check in didn't even show up at swim start because they saw the forecast and said frick that.

It was 95 degrees with 25mph winds. Temperature at swim start was already 90 degrees. Winds made the 2nd half of the bike loop a pain. 95 degrees on the run made the run a bitch. Since it was my first I didn't really have any experience to lean on. The swim went well but my bike chain broke at Mile 6. I thought my race was over but a roving mechanic came to fix it. I was back on the road but like an idiot I tried to make up for lost time and rode way harder than I should have and bonked around Mile 75. Last 35 miles of the bike sucked and the last 16 were straight into the wind and it felt like it went on forever.

For the run I tried to run without walking and made it about 6 miles at a ~9:00 pace before having to run/walk because it was so hot and my stomach was in shambles, and also had nothing because I overbiked. I threw up in the Brazos River over a bridge. The weird part was I barely saw anyone else on the run course. I felt alone. I later learned it was because so many quit.

When the sun went down the run got easier and I ran the last 6 miles or so at a faster pace than the first 20. Averaged 7:30/mile over the last 3. Finish time was 12:44 which isn't terrible on a day like that plus being off course for 20 minutes due to the chain.

One of the greatest days of my life. Next Ironman, Ironman Texas 2023, was a cakewalk compared to that. Temps mid 70s and low dewpoint(for The Woodlands) and manageable winds. Ironman Texas 2024 on the other hand sucked balls. Temps in the upper 80s with dew points in the 70s and 40mph gusts out of the south which made the southbound bike portion hell. I saw pros in the fetal position at aid stations that made me feel better. Pushed ~20 more watts on the bike vs. 2023 yet only rode a 3 minute faster bike split. My run was 4 minutes worse than 2023. Only beat my 2023 time by 40 seconds because my transitions were faster.
Posted by 13233
Hattiesburg, MS
Member since Aug 2016
81 posts
Posted on 1/24/25 at 2:57 pm to
Goldennugget, you are a boss! Great story! Looks like some others in this thread fall into that boss category too. They don’t call this stuff pillow person. It’s Ironman! Love it.
Posted by Jon A thon
Member since May 2019
2405 posts
Posted on 1/24/25 at 6:19 pm to
I did Ironman TX 2018...I won't even pretend it was difficult. I mean it's an IM, but unbelievable conditions. Had my Garmin set to buzz at my comfortable swim time and it literally went off on the stairs out of the water, then beat my expected bike time by 45 minutes riding under my normalized power target.

I suck at running though. Plus did not have a good digestive plan and was nauseous all of lap 2. I was on track for sub 11 hours which would have been unbelievable for me and ended up at like 12:48. You really have no idea how good you are doing until the run. And a lot of the run is based on your legs left after the bike. So, even though I was under my power number prescribed by an experienced coach who knew my abilities, I guess I still over biked. It was humbling. But such a great feeling crossing the line.

So many people tell me there's no way they could do that. My training group had college athletes to retired folks who looked like any normal person. It's so mental. Mental strength on the day of the race and mental strength to get up and work every day. But outside of medical conditions, I truly believe most could cross the finish line and encourage anyone to give it a shot. Especially half Ironman. If you work out an hour a day, you already put in enough effort. Just have to refocus that to endurance for a bit and will have some long weekend workouts as you get close to the race, but it's not the full lifestyle change the full requires. I lost the mental strength I had for 5 years and I miss that more than the physical side of it. And it's hard to build back up. Especially with a more stressful career and kids. If you have the opportunity, do it! It's so worth it.
Posted by goldennugget
NIL Ruined College Sports
Member since Jul 2013
26286 posts
Posted on 1/25/25 at 8:07 am to
quote:

I suck at running though. Plus did not have a good digestive plan and was nauseous all of lap 2. I was on track for sub 11 hours which would have been unbelievable for me and ended up at like 12:48. You really have no idea how good you are doing until the run. And a lot of the run is based on your legs left after the bike. So, even though I was under my power number prescribed by an experienced coach who knew my abilities, I guess I still over biked. It was humbling. But such a great feeling crossing the line.



The Ironman Run is what makes it hard. I've always said, if you are suffering and laboring before you get to the run, you are doing it way wrong and probably shouldn't have signed up.

Having done 6 Ironmans, if I were to rank my runs, it would be the exact same ranking as the weather conditions from ideal to least ideal. Weather plays that big of a role. Here is my list of Ironman runs from best executed to worst:

1. Lake Placid 2024 - 3:29 - 70 air temp, 51 dew point
2. Texas 2023 - 3:43 - 73 air temp, 54 dew point
3. Wisconsin 2023 - 3:45 - 78 air temp, 59 dew point
4. Florida 2024 - 3:34 - 87 air temp, 68 dew point
5. Texas 2024 - 3:47 - 86 air temp, 72 dew point
6. Waco 2022 - 4:25 - 95 air temp, 64 dew point

That Lake Placid run was my best even though the bike course had 7,000+ feet of gain AND I went over my NP target. I got in a crash out of the gate and my deraileur broke, leading to me only having about 6 usable gears which made it very difficult to keep my power in check. But the run went well because the weather was so good (compared to other races). Only Ironman run for me to date where I didn't walk a single step. It was still challenging, especially on the 2nd loop, but mentally I was able to get it done. I told myself I could walk once I got to Mile 20, but I got to Mile 20 and said frick that, I've gotten this far without walking, finish it

My Florida run was disappointing as I had an amazing bike where I nailed my NP target of 200 on the nose and ran the first loop in 1:40, on track for a 3:20 if I could keep it up which I did think I could because that 1:40 felt pretty effortless. But around Mile 16 I began to cramp and dealt with full leg cramps in both legs the rest of the way and I ran a 1:54 second loop. Still finished sub 10 at 9:57 but those cramps cost me Top 5 in my AG and a trophy. Still got the WC slot. It was hot humid and the issue was I lost one of my bottles on the bike and had to rely on the on course nutrition - but I just wasn't able to get enough sodium to replace what I had in that bottle I lost, which I ended up paying for the last 10 miles of the run which truly sucked.

That Wisconsin run was funny. You'd think all the locals and those from Chicago thought we were on the surface of the sun with how hot they thought it was. Meanwhile I had been training in Texas all summer and thought 79 wasn't so bad. Florida was the same way. All these people who came from northern states thought they were melting, but my training in the Miami heat & humidty the past 6 months paid off dearly.

About to do a 3 hour trainer ride
Posted by Mingo Was His NameO
Brooklyn
Member since Mar 2016
37272 posts
Posted on 1/25/25 at 2:35 pm to
Did an hour bike and half hour run

Bike was right around 15.5 miles. Decently happy with that as I was fighting probably a 15 mph headwind for at least 4 or 5 miles and had to stop for traffic/dodge other bikers and runners. It’s also the first time I’ve ridden outside in a quite a long time, maybe 6 months so I did feel fairly uncomfortable for the first 15 minutes or so getting used to being back on the road

Run was 3.5 miles of right at 8:30 pace. Very happy with this as it felt incredibly easy, felt like I could have kept that pace forever

Posted by Oates Mustache
Member since Oct 2011
26066 posts
Posted on 1/25/25 at 6:50 pm to
quote:

I’ve had my bike for a couple of years, should be good to go there.


George is right, but it's not really about power loss, as much as it's about comfort. I've done plenty of century rides and then finally got a professional fit (cost about $350, and no that's not a tree fiddy joke). After a while, if you're not properly fitted, every little nagging thing you notice will turn into pain.

I get who you are on this board, and I appreciate your sarcastic arse posts, but go get professionally fitted. You'd be really surprised at how off it really is.
Posted by Mingo Was His NameO
Brooklyn
Member since Mar 2016
37272 posts
Posted on 1/25/25 at 6:57 pm to
quote:

I've done plenty of century rides and then finally got a professional fit (cost about $350, and no that's not a tree fiddy joke)


I got my bike fitted for free. Why on earth would you pay $350 to have the saddle and handlebars moved?
This post was edited on 1/25/25 at 6:57 pm
Posted by Oates Mustache
Member since Oct 2011
26066 posts
Posted on 1/25/25 at 7:00 pm to
quote:


I got my bike fitted for free.


If you got a professional fitting for free, that's awesome.

quote:

Why on earth would you pay $350 to have the saddle and handlebars moved?


That's absolutely not a professional fitting.

You do you though, if you ride 50+ miles hard with no pain, maybe you got lucky or your fitting was great.
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