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Message
Please let me know your thoughts on these Test numbers - UPDATED Pg 2
Posted on 7/21/24 at 11:44 pm
Posted on 7/21/24 at 11:44 pm
Sorry for the long post, but I want to see what some of you think about these numbers and what I should consider for the future. I'm hoping 777 and a few others I see on here chime in.
I'm 6'3" 199lbs and am 49 y.o. I have a gut that pisses me off and some handles to go with it. It's better than 3 years ago when I finally decided to get back to working out. I was 215lbs and out of shape. For about a year (2021-2022) I was just working out, but really didn't change too much with my diet, which wasn't great. Then 2 years ago I got more serious and started cutting out as much sugar as I could and eating a little better. My wife still loved to give me big plates, so I started telling her "smaller portions". This led to me looking/feeling better and I was around 208lbs. About mid 2022, my buddy tells me he's doing this cream and he immediately started noticing improvement in multiple areas. I also think he was having some sexual issues. Thankfully that wasn't an issue for me, but I will say my drive wasn't that strong anymore. I'm guessing that pretty normal for mid-late 40's.
I tried the cream for a couple months but I didn't notice anything. The Doc said I could try the injections and they would do them for me, but I was not liking having to drive over weekly for this. So then the Doc sends me pre-filled syringes and I was doing that twice a week. Anyway, I definitely felt more strength and quicker recovery plus I also got down to 185lbs. I was also feeling like a younger version as I was getting wood for no reason
and I definitely wanted to have a lot more sex. BUT, I didn't want to be doing injections for the rest of my life. I was 48 at this point and sort of hit a crossroads of feeling pretty good, but not liking how I had to get there. My hair was always thin, but now I was seeing receding and baldness come on. I stopped early last year. My strength is definitely less, my sex drive feels pretty weak these days, and I put on nearly 15lbs to get to the 199 I'm at now. I'm mulling doing the injections again, but it's really not my preferred choice and I will be out of the country for a while so I'm not sure I'll be able to continue with them anyway. FYI, after the hair scare, I got on Finasteride and now there are some side effects from that I really don't like, so now that my hair looks better I am likely to stop that as well. I'm hoping that because I'm off the TRT, I won't see the hair loss anymore, or at least no so drastic.
All I take right now once a day is D3 125MCG and B12 100MCG. I read you guys talk about Boron and wondering if that would be a good start? I have some Whey that I keep forgetting (too lazy) to make shakes with. Should I take Creatine? Just looking for what I can try naturally or is that a lost cause?
Ok, here's the Test results, but on the next post I will post a bunch of tests I've taken over the years if that helps. BTW, I have Kaiser and their results are done weirdly in some cases so I had to work with what I got. Also, they're notoriously bad about any recommended TRT procedures, so if I do go back I likely need to go a different path than them. About May-June 2022 was when I was trying the cream and that's why I got that blood work. Then from late 2022 through May 2023 I was doing TRT. Because of the high Free I got a little nervous and stopped. When I did the blood work in Aug 2023 I was really worried about how low my Total went down. Then I was pretty shocked at how high it was Feb 2024 without having done anything in nearly a year. It's even higher than pre-cream/injections.
I'm about to go in next month for a new set of blood work because of the last two going from low to high. What should I make sure I absolutely get labs on? Should I not start any new pills until after that or should I get on Boron as an example before my next test?
I'm 6'3" 199lbs and am 49 y.o. I have a gut that pisses me off and some handles to go with it. It's better than 3 years ago when I finally decided to get back to working out. I was 215lbs and out of shape. For about a year (2021-2022) I was just working out, but really didn't change too much with my diet, which wasn't great. Then 2 years ago I got more serious and started cutting out as much sugar as I could and eating a little better. My wife still loved to give me big plates, so I started telling her "smaller portions". This led to me looking/feeling better and I was around 208lbs. About mid 2022, my buddy tells me he's doing this cream and he immediately started noticing improvement in multiple areas. I also think he was having some sexual issues. Thankfully that wasn't an issue for me, but I will say my drive wasn't that strong anymore. I'm guessing that pretty normal for mid-late 40's.
I tried the cream for a couple months but I didn't notice anything. The Doc said I could try the injections and they would do them for me, but I was not liking having to drive over weekly for this. So then the Doc sends me pre-filled syringes and I was doing that twice a week. Anyway, I definitely felt more strength and quicker recovery plus I also got down to 185lbs. I was also feeling like a younger version as I was getting wood for no reason

All I take right now once a day is D3 125MCG and B12 100MCG. I read you guys talk about Boron and wondering if that would be a good start? I have some Whey that I keep forgetting (too lazy) to make shakes with. Should I take Creatine? Just looking for what I can try naturally or is that a lost cause?
Ok, here's the Test results, but on the next post I will post a bunch of tests I've taken over the years if that helps. BTW, I have Kaiser and their results are done weirdly in some cases so I had to work with what I got. Also, they're notoriously bad about any recommended TRT procedures, so if I do go back I likely need to go a different path than them. About May-June 2022 was when I was trying the cream and that's why I got that blood work. Then from late 2022 through May 2023 I was doing TRT. Because of the high Free I got a little nervous and stopped. When I did the blood work in Aug 2023 I was really worried about how low my Total went down. Then I was pretty shocked at how high it was Feb 2024 without having done anything in nearly a year. It's even higher than pre-cream/injections.

I'm about to go in next month for a new set of blood work because of the last two going from low to high. What should I make sure I absolutely get labs on? Should I not start any new pills until after that or should I get on Boron as an example before my next test?
This post was edited on 11/3/24 at 4:33 pm
Posted on 7/21/24 at 11:58 pm to Joe D Grinder
Ok, the other labs I've gotten through the years. Some, not as up to date:
CHOL - obviously got on statins which I honestly want to quit taking. I feel like once I got on a 40mg in 2022 I've had some memory issues:
CHOL/HDL:
HDL:
LDL,CALCULATED:
TRIGLYCERIDE:
VLDL,CALC





CHOL - obviously got on statins which I honestly want to quit taking. I feel like once I got on a 40mg in 2022 I've had some memory issues:

CHOL/HDL:

HDL:

LDL,CALCULATED:





TRIGLYCERIDE:

VLDL,CALC






Posted on 7/22/24 at 8:40 pm to Joe D Grinder
What's with the downvotes?
BUMP for lsu777, ronricks, Rendlo, Carson, anyone that can help??

BUMP for lsu777, ronricks, Rendlo, Carson, anyone that can help??
This post was edited on 7/22/24 at 8:41 pm
Posted on 7/22/24 at 9:23 pm to Joe D Grinder
Isn’t a 36 triglyceride like liver problems or something?
Posted on 7/22/24 at 10:10 pm to bamaguy17
I honestly have no idea, but my PCP didn't say anything and this was at the end of me taking TRT. With my new labs I'll do in Aug I'll make sure to run Tri again 

Posted on 7/22/24 at 10:56 pm to Joe D Grinder
quote:
What's with the downvotes?
BUMP for lsu777, ronricks, Rendlo, Carson, anyone that can help??
People hate to read, it irritates me because I enjoy typing out lots of words. Your post has lots of words and also lots of graphics, I'm gonna assume that's the reason for the downvotes, but I dunno. It's dumb, ignore it.
I'm more questioning towards your roster of posters you want feedback from, ronricks? Not so sure about that guy....he's kinda .....shouty...and not so helpy, but he's got his moments I guess.

Looking at your past labs I would definitely do another HgbA1c level because yours looks like it's always been in that pre-diabetic territory. The PSA is a good thing to check regularly, and I am pretty sure it's essential for people that do TRT. Since you're taking vitD, I'd get a vitD level drawn as well, so you know where you're at with that. TSH level is important too. Lipids, definitely. If you haven't taken boron yet and you're about to get your blood drawn again, may as well hold off and get a baseline "pre boron" set of numbers. That way you can compare your next blood levels (after you start taking boron, if you do take it) to your "pre-boron" blood results. Boron will boost your free T numbers. Lots of posters here take it, as do I, and it is one supp I take where I could definitely tell it was doing something as I started regrowing leg hair almost immediately upon taking it. I can't recommend creatine enough, everyone should take it, fricking babies should take it. Nothing wrong with whey if you need a supp to hit your daily protein targets, nothing wrong with casein either.
What's your training history like? Do you do any strength training now? 6'3" 200lbs, that's like the ideal ht/wt, but I don't know what your body comp is or strength are like. If you have a belly and love handles you're probably on the wrong side of 15%BF but you'll either have to get tested or post pics and let us all guess. It was probably wise to focus on building a consistent workout schedule out the gate back in 2021, and waiting a bit before you cut calories. I don't think you sound like you need to lose weight, probably just recomp, focus on building strength/muscle, but I don't know what your starting point is here. It's my understanding that TRT is a "once you get on, you get on for life" kinda deals, that's why I'm not starting yet. I haven't figured out how I'll stay on indefinitely. You stopped TRT after starting, and still had a recovery of your T levels from an initial drop it seems, so I'm curious what your levels are now. Good luck, I hope you're able to find some answers soon, you're still young enough to help yourself out a lot with proper diet and training and pharmacological interventions.

Posted on 7/22/24 at 11:48 pm to DrDenim
I'm interested in natural ways myself. Will follow thread.
This post was edited on 7/22/24 at 11:50 pm
Posted on 7/23/24 at 8:16 am to Joe D Grinder
All of your symptoms are documented side effects of finasteride. Instead of adding something, try taking that away. Topical minoxidil for hair loss if you want
Posted on 7/23/24 at 10:39 am to DrDenim
Thanks, man. I know my post is long, but how can someone get reasonable advice without it. And yeah, just naming some people I've seen respond to others seemingly knowing what they're talking about haha. I definitely plan on getting A1C tested again and thanks for the other recs. I go back and forth on starting Boron now or after one more round of labs. I do need to get on Creatine it seems.
I would say my BF is likely over 15%. I do hit my home gym and real gym at least 3x a week. I can't seem to get anymore definition but I'm trying! My weakness is cardio as I don't d9 much of it. Skinny legs because of it. I'd like to just drop 5 more lbs all from my gut
I would say my BF is likely over 15%. I do hit my home gym and real gym at least 3x a week. I can't seem to get anymore definition but I'm trying! My weakness is cardio as I don't d9 much of it. Skinny legs because of it. I'd like to just drop 5 more lbs all from my gut

Posted on 7/23/24 at 9:43 pm to Joe D Grinder
I’ll look at everything Monday when I get back home from vacation, don’t have time and service sucks, even wifi
Posted on 7/23/24 at 10:12 pm to NewOrleansBlend
quote:
All of your symptoms are documented side effects of finasteride. Instead of adding something, try taking that away.
I'm stopping that now, but I hadn't taken this before last year. This isn't the answer to other questions/symptoms.
Posted on 7/23/24 at 10:12 pm to lsu777
quote:
I’ll look at everything Monday when I get back home from vacation, don’t have time and service sucks, even wifi

Posted on 7/23/24 at 10:50 pm to Joe D Grinder
Honestly, I'd stop finasteride and start Boron. Fin was problematic for me with side effects. Your total test is ok but I always feel better above 700. Your free T isn't bad, but I think you should worry less about the numbers and more about how you feel. Boron may give you the added boost you need in free T to feel good.
Posted on 7/24/24 at 2:50 pm to SimonSlick
quote:
Boron may give you the added boost you need in free T to feel good.
Thanks, yeah I plan on starting. Need to know how much and should I do it before my next labs or wait till after?
Posted on 7/29/24 at 10:59 am to Joe D Grinder
ok for first set of test-
1) you sound lazy...stop being fricking lazy
2) get your diet in order, your hormones do not override thermodynamics. need to be getting 175-200g protein daily.
3) your levels were fine on trt and they are fine now. they were low before. i would prolly still get on boron at 15mg/day and maybe sustain alpha but that is just trying to optimize. get on this and go back in 8-12 weeks and get blood work. no need to get next month, too soon
4) i dunno what to tell you about your hair. you are going to have to make a choice here...feel good and look good with less hair and be in better health or keep your hair. you are pre disposed to lose it, is what it is
1) you sound lazy...stop being fricking lazy
2) get your diet in order, your hormones do not override thermodynamics. need to be getting 175-200g protein daily.
3) your levels were fine on trt and they are fine now. they were low before. i would prolly still get on boron at 15mg/day and maybe sustain alpha but that is just trying to optimize. get on this and go back in 8-12 weeks and get blood work. no need to get next month, too soon
4) i dunno what to tell you about your hair. you are going to have to make a choice here...feel good and look good with less hair and be in better health or keep your hair. you are pre disposed to lose it, is what it is
Posted on 7/29/24 at 11:07 am to Joe D Grinder
1) alt- looks fine as does bun. both well within normal ranges so liver looks good overall
2)cholesterol- lower the dose of the statin if having memory problems, cut to 20mg
add-
A) Nattokinase- -2-3 caps in the morning, 2-3 at night. doctors best brand
B) Citrus Bergmont- same dose as Natt
C) vit k- in the form of super K from life extension. 1-2 caps morning & again at night
D) 4-6oz of 100% Pomegranate Juice not from concentrate- BLUE RIBBON brand from amazon or traders joe brand
retest after 16 weeks of being on this protocol
3) glucose and a1c a little high- get on some form of berberine or sns glycophase(1-2 caps before any meal containing carbs)
everything else looks fine
2)cholesterol- lower the dose of the statin if having memory problems, cut to 20mg
add-
A) Nattokinase- -2-3 caps in the morning, 2-3 at night. doctors best brand
B) Citrus Bergmont- same dose as Natt
C) vit k- in the form of super K from life extension. 1-2 caps morning & again at night
D) 4-6oz of 100% Pomegranate Juice not from concentrate- BLUE RIBBON brand from amazon or traders joe brand
retest after 16 weeks of being on this protocol
3) glucose and a1c a little high- get on some form of berberine or sns glycophase(1-2 caps before any meal containing carbs)
everything else looks fine
Posted on 7/29/24 at 11:14 am to DrDenim
quote:
I'm more questioning towards your roster of posters you want feedback from, ronricks? Not so sure about that guy....he's kinda .....shouty...and not so helpy, but he's got his moments I guess. I don't recognize the last 2 you mentioned, but LSU777's can hopefully chime in and recommend some reading material for you because the one thing that jumps out at me from your post is that you sound ignorant in regards to the details concerning the substances you've taken in the past. I hope that doesn't come across as shitty as it sounds to me as I type it, I don't mean it that way, it just sounds like you've got a lot to learn about TRT, finasteride, etc. You probably agree as you did come here with questions. I wish I could answer them, but I am also ignorant. I'm constantly looking for a reliable, honest, science based website, youtuber, forum, etc to learn more about TRT, and it's frustratingly hard. Honestly, this place is the best I've found.
he is kind of ignorant but that is to be expected, very few doctors understand it and honestly there is such a stigma that its hard to get good info. honestly the steroid forums usually have the best info. Dante Trudel is prolly guy putting out best info. tictok actually has some good people putting out really good work too and powerathlete just had a good podcast episode on trt.
quote:
Looking at your past labs I would definitely do another HgbA1c level because yours looks like it's always been in that pre-diabetic territory. The PSA is a good thing to check regularly, and I am pretty sure it's essential for people that do TRT. Since you're taking vitD, I'd get a vitD level drawn as well, so you know where you're at with that. TSH level is important too. Lipids, definitely. If you haven't taken boron yet and you're about to get your blood drawn again, may as well hold off and get a baseline "pre boron" set of numbers. That way you can compare your next blood levels (after you start taking boron, if you do take it) to your "pre-boron" blood results. Boron will boost your free T numbers. Lots of posters here take it, as do I, and it is one supp I take where I could definitely tell it was doing something as I started regrowing leg hair almost immediately upon taking it. I can't recommend creatine enough, everyone should take it, fricking babies should take it. Nothing wrong with whey if you need a supp to hit your daily protein targets, nothing wrong with casein either.
agreed with all this. every living organism on earth should be taking creatine imo. especially kids and older adults but good luck getting them to take it.
my kids fight me on it big time lol. they get tired of the taste of the gummies, hate the pills and powder. I get it, i hate taking the powder too
women hate taking it because the scale goes up and for most...that is a mind frick. especially older women.
Posted on 7/29/24 at 11:15 am to DrDenim
quote:
What's your training history like? Do you do any strength training now? 6'3" 200lbs, that's like the ideal ht/wt, but I don't know what your body comp is or strength are like. If you have a belly and love handles you're probably on the wrong side of 15%BF but you'll either have to get tested or post pics and let us all guess. It was probably wise to focus on building a consistent workout schedule out the gate back in 2021, and waiting a bit before you cut calories. I don't think you sound like you need to lose weight, probably just recomp, focus on building strength/muscle, but I don't know what your starting point is here. It's my understanding that TRT is a "once you get on, you get on for life" kinda deals, that's why I'm not starting yet. I haven't figured out how I'll stay on indefinitely. You stopped TRT after starting, and still had a recovery of your T levels from an initial drop it seems, so I'm curious what your levels are now. Good luck, I hope you're able to find some answers soon, you're still young enough to help yourself out a lot with proper diet and training and pharmacological interventions
OP i never saw the answer to this
what is your training like right now
what is diet...ie calories and macros(not guesses, actual numbers)
what is your goals
what is current bf%
Posted on 7/30/24 at 9:37 am to DrDenim
Am doctor. Just skimmed these but congrats on the lipid improvements! (Low LDL, high HDL, low triglycerides).
If you want to stop statins you can try the Mediterranean Diet and possibly supplement with red Rice yeast(this is something you should totally discuss with YOUR pcp and take from me the’internet doc’ with a grain of salt)
If you want to stop statins you can try the Mediterranean Diet and possibly supplement with red Rice yeast(this is something you should totally discuss with YOUR pcp and take from me the’internet doc’ with a grain of salt)
Posted on 7/30/24 at 10:50 am to SundayFunday
quote:
red Rice yeast
doesnt work anymore. they removed main ingredient that helped with lipids
natt and citrus bergmont are best things for lipids now.
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