re: Cinnamon pills

So I read this study, there was no control over calories or protein. Essentially they said here is a pill, take as written on the bottle.

I understand the group taking metformin lost on average 13 lbs over 6 months, but there is zero science behind this study. Essentially it fails go give a causation for the fat loss other than assuming insulin control.

I understand you have family that takes it, my wife does also and so does by best friend at work. Both have had stomach issue not matter the dose. With no science behind why the weight loss happened or without control or even to see where the weight loss came from, there are no definite conclusions we can draw from this first study you linked.

In other words we have no clue why the weight loss happened, if it was fat, etc.

The thing that stands out to me is that it's over 100 patients and 6 months long with an average over 10lbs lost in the Metformin users. Diarrhea is understandable to counter with the reason for weightloss but not for an extended amount of time. Patients adjust and take in more fiber, use immodium, or just don't even have those symptoms anymore after a couple of months. The length of the study takes out those outliers.

The diet is better they are not touched. If the patient is normally eating 3000 calories and then takes Metformin and still loses weight, that is more of an indication the medicine is working than putting them on a fixed hypocaloric diet and wondering if it was the weight vs calories difference (ex 200 lb woman with 25bmi vs a 160lb woman with 25 bmi).

The way I see the body and losing weight is more than one way. Layne is a one way and that is calories in vs calories out (CICO). This IMO is not the only way to do it. Yes, calories are an indication of the level of nutrients in surplus but calories are just an energy unit. The profile of the food and how the body uses it is a more granular approach to weight loss. If someone is more insulin resistant, high GI carbs will effect them more than somebody that is not. Metformin changes the way the body uses insulin and allows a more consistent diet.

Think of it as machine.

In a mechanical system you have gears and an engine. To produce heat, you need to raise the output of the engine. However, if the machine is running at 50% efficiency, the machine running 25% as hard will surpass it if it's running at 100%.

So what two options do you have to match the other system? Raise the output further or grease the gears and work on the efficiency.

It's the same with the ECA stack. Ephedra is the main utility in the concoction but it's not as efficient without the caffeine and aspirin.

I'm sort of rambling but really trying to show it's not all about CICO. CICO is ultimately important when all systems are running at near or max efficiency. Does no good if you keep lowering CICO if the body isn't efficient enough to counteract chemical Imbalances.

quote:

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You can either amplify the machine (DNP, ECA) or make the machine more efficient (Metformin)

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No doubt, and please don't take it as me critizing you. I agree with you and actually Layne would acknowledge what you said. Meal timing and supplements play a part just a smaller part unless it's serious stuff like DNP.

I was wanting the studies more from a selfish point of view. I have been looking into metformin from a anti aging point of view, same with cortisol control thru products like reduce xt. Also looking at other ways to control insulin naturally with NA-R-ALA and berberine powder.

I have used insulin mimickers that act similar to metformin and felt I got nutrition partitioning effects. Might have to do some experimenting with it again. Maybe even with metformin.

No worries. It's the reason why I said indirectly initially.

I think it's very little. It does help but not at the same rate caffeine does. Doesn't hurt to take baby aspirin though anyway.

Y’all are really helpful. I’m not trying to lose weight weight but I’d like to get cut up

Unfortunately I feel like I’m on my feet all day at work, hit the gym about 5 days a week and I don’t drink cokes or eat bad food. I think my only big calorie sink is alcohol but that’s very important to me obviously