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Started By
Message
Best sleep tracker?
Posted on 7/19/21 at 4:52 pm
Posted on 7/19/21 at 4:52 pm
Two most important parameters: accuracy and privacy.
TIA
TIA
2
Posted on 7/19/21 at 5:18 pm to Big Scrub TX
Whoop
Third party validated
Third party validated
Posted on 7/19/21 at 7:00 pm to Big Scrub TX
If it doesn't have EEG, it's not accurate. Including home sleep studies. There is no way to know if you're awake/asleep much less what stage of sleep you are in if you don't have EEG.
21+ years in sleep, seen them all.
21+ years in sleep, seen them all.
Posted on 7/20/21 at 7:24 am to JJ27
quote:
JJ27
which one you recommend?
Posted on 7/20/21 at 1:31 pm to lsu777
quote:
which one you recommend?
Without a massive grain of salt? None of them. They're monitoring your heart rate and movement. I can stay perfectly still with a consistent heart rate for hours. Doesn't mean I was asleep.
Posted on 7/20/21 at 2:04 pm to JJ27
That's it? That's settled science for sure?
Posted on 7/20/21 at 2:07 pm to Big Scrub TX
When we do a sleep study, we hook up electrodes to your scalp so we can see your brain waves. That is how we distinguish what stage of sleep you are in at the moment throughout the night. I go through every 30 seconds and mark the proper stage. Most studies are 800-1100 epochs/screens. Without the brain waves, I would have absolutely no idea when you were asleep. We do home studies with just a PTaf to monitor breathing, a belt to monitor respiratory effort, and a pulse ox to monitor heart rate and oxygen saturation. I STILL have no idea what stage of sleep you're in throughout the night.
So how is a watch, belt, or app on your phone going to know accurately?
So how is a watch, belt, or app on your phone going to know accurately?
Posted on 7/20/21 at 2:16 pm to JJ27
quote:
When we do a sleep study, we hook up electrodes to your scalp so we can see your brain waves. That is how we distinguish what stage of sleep you are in at the moment throughout the night. I go through every 30 seconds and mark the proper stage. Most studies are 800-1100 epochs/screens. Without the brain waves, I would have absolutely no idea when you were asleep. We do home studies with just a PTaf to monitor breathing, a belt to monitor respiratory effort, and a pulse ox to monitor heart rate and oxygen saturation. I STILL have no idea what stage of sleep you're in throughout the night.
So how is a watch, belt, or app on your phone going to know accurately?
That's like saying you wouldn't buy a car because it's not a Ferrari. There's plenty of devices that have been tested against lab sleep studies that provide data within an acceptable error range.
Here's Whoops third party validation from the University of Arizona.
LINK
Posted on 7/20/21 at 2:44 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
That's like saying you wouldn't buy a car because it's not a Ferrari. There's plenty of devices that have been tested against lab sleep studies that provide data within an acceptable error range.
From your link:
quote:
CONCLUSIONS
Despite improvements in wearables for measuring sleep stages and sleep fragmentation, such technologies are not accepted as tools for measuring sleep duration in clinical practices where sleep logs and PSGs are still in use. The regulatory oversight of wearables and mHealth has many uncertainties, and therefore, more validation and scientific assessments of the effects of such devices on behaviors are needed.9 Our study is highly responsive to such a need and demonstrates that wearables can improve sleep quality and modify sleep behaviors while accurately measuring sleep in healthy individuals.
So they studied 35 healthy people with zero medical problems. They only used the data from 32 of them because 3 couldn't be bothered to do the PSG portion for validation. The Whoop did a good job identifying REM and Delta sleep, which makes sense as there are certain characteristics of those stages that would make them easier to identify. It was "fair" in identifying stages 1 and 2. Makes sense, much more variability.
I wouldn't be satisfied on 32 healthy people with zero sleep problems being enough to sign off on a piece of equipment. If you feel comfortable with it/believe it's doing what it says it is doing, cool. Plop down your money and be happy. I'm just giving my informed opinion on the subject.
This post was edited on 7/20/21 at 2:48 pm
Posted on 7/20/21 at 2:54 pm to JJ27
quote:
I wouldn't be satisfied on 32 healthy people with zero sleep problems being enough to sign off on a piece of equipment.
In a clinical sense, sure I agree.
But if something does a good job measuring for home use and an affordable price it's better than nothing, no?
This post was edited on 7/20/21 at 2:56 pm
Posted on 7/20/21 at 3:01 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
I have an Apple Watch and look at what it says, but I don't take it to heart. Like I said, reading the material it seemed to help people be more conscious of the amount of sleep they were getting. That is a big improvement from most honestly. I just wouldn't take the readings of you slept 3 hours of Stage 2, 2 hours of Delta/Slow Wave, and 2 hours of REM too seriously.
Posted on 7/20/21 at 3:29 pm to JJ27
quote:I want to get an accurate sense of what my sleep patterns look like - does the suggested product get me there or not?
I have an Apple Watch and look at what it says, but I don't take it to heart. Like I said, reading the material it seemed to help people be more conscious of the amount of sleep they were getting. That is a big improvement from most honestly. I just wouldn't take the readings of you slept 3 hours of Stage 2, 2 hours of Delta/Slow Wave, and 2 hours of REM too seriously.
Posted on 7/20/21 at 3:40 pm to JJ27
quote:
I have an Apple Watch and look at what it says, but I don't take it to heart. Like I said, reading the material it seemed to help people be more conscious of the amount of sleep they were getting. That is a big improvement from most honestly. I just wouldn't take the readings of you slept 3 hours of Stage 2, 2 hours of Delta/Slow Wave, and 2 hours of REM too seriously.
I mean, of course. I haven't had metabolic testing done either, but I can baseline what a wearable is telling me and go from there with food. Same with sleep, it isn't going to be totally accurate with sleep stages but if my resporitory rate and heart rate are elevated from the baseline I can deduce something is up.
It doesn't have to be totally accurate as long as it's consistent. Of course, it can't be horrible in the absolute sense of reading, but if it's in an acceptable error range and measures consistently, a wearable can give you material value. If that wasn't the case, almost every high level athlete wouldn't be using them.
Posted on 7/20/21 at 4:06 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
I want to get an accurate sense of what my sleep patterns look like - does the suggested product get me there or not?
In times that you lay down/how long you are in bed…sure. In actual stages of sleep/number of arousals, quality of sleep, leg movements, respiratory events, etc. in my opinion no.
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