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Message
re: HDCPs are stupid.
Posted on 7/4/23 at 8:23 am to Monahans
Posted on 7/4/23 at 8:23 am to Monahans
quote:Played a tournament a few months ago, two man scramble. Last flight a team shoots 85/67. They were disqualified by tournament officials. But took home the calcutta money.
Of course, sandbagging is still rampant
0
Posted on 7/6/23 at 9:46 am to AirbusDawg
quote:I am having trouble understanding how it matters if it is by hole or total score and why you think the clubs are doing it wrong. Can you describe a scenario where it changes the outcome?
Most every club I know uses the handicap incorrectly. They play it off the lowest handicap player, which is totally wrong. So if I'm a 5 handicap and play a 15, the 15 just gets 10 shots and I get zero. It should be I get 5 and he gets 15. Sure, for total score it doesn't matter, but most of the time it is by hole.
Posted on 7/6/23 at 9:52 am to WDE24
If you are playing match play with a 2 and a 4. If you 0 out the 2, the 4 gets a stroke on index holes 1 and 2. There are arguments that instead, they should each get all of their strokes, which would result in the 4 getting extra strokes on holes 3 and 4 instead.
This post was edited on 7/6/23 at 9:57 am
Posted on 7/6/23 at 10:45 am to DestrehanTiger
I think hdcps are implemented improperly for match play. Your cap is calculated by playing stroke play, but in match play, it doesn't matter if you lose a hole by a stroke or 5 strokes, you still lost 1 hole. There should be a cumulative effect on the match that keeps track of actual strokes.
For instance, if a 15 hdcp is playing a 5 hdcp and gets 10 strokes in the match, and then 5 beats the 15 by 2 strokes on #1, the 15 should lose a stroke on the easiest remaining hole he gets a stroke. This can toggle back and forth throughout the match, so that if the 15 then beats the 5 on the next hole by 2 strokes, he can get his previously lost stroke back. The obvious problem with this is that you have to actually finish each hole to implement it. I've seen some tournaments implement 70%-80% of your handicap rules to try to address this, but I'm not sure that's the right answer either.
For instance, if a 15 hdcp is playing a 5 hdcp and gets 10 strokes in the match, and then 5 beats the 15 by 2 strokes on #1, the 15 should lose a stroke on the easiest remaining hole he gets a stroke. This can toggle back and forth throughout the match, so that if the 15 then beats the 5 on the next hole by 2 strokes, he can get his previously lost stroke back. The obvious problem with this is that you have to actually finish each hole to implement it. I've seen some tournaments implement 70%-80% of your handicap rules to try to address this, but I'm not sure that's the right answer either.
Posted on 7/6/23 at 11:10 am to medtiger
It also sounds super confusing to track. I just don't think there will ever be a perfect system with handicaps. I'm just happy there is a way to have some competition between people with vastly different skill levels.
Posted on 7/6/23 at 11:16 am to DestrehanTiger
Got it.
Posted on 7/6/23 at 11:19 am to medtiger
quote:That, tracking it, and inflating number of strokes on a hole already lost make this unworkable, imo.
The obvious problem with this is that you have to actually finish each hole to implement it.
Posted on 7/6/23 at 11:32 am to WDE24
quote:
inflating number of strokes on a hole already lost
That would make it worse for whomever is losing the hole. The incentive is to score the best possible on each hole to keep from losing strokes on future holes.
Posted on 7/6/23 at 11:53 am to medtiger
quote:
The incentive is to score the best possible on each hole to keep from losing strokes on future holes.
It seems like playing stoke play would be simpler.
Posted on 7/6/23 at 8:27 pm to DestrehanTiger
The way golf courses are handicapped the hardest hole is number one handicap. If the lower player is reduced to zero, say he was a 10, now a 0, and an 18 handicapper is reduced to an 8, the higher handicapper has an advantage in match play over the lower handicapper. Players should get strokes where they fall on the card. That way the lower handicapper is giving stokes on the easier holes to the higher handicapper, not on the harder holes.
Posted on 7/6/23 at 9:12 pm to AirbusDawg
To break down handicaps further, the hole indexe system isn't perfect either. The #1 index is always on the front nine and #2 is always on the back. So, the true toughest hole might actually be on the back nine. The #2 toughest might actually be on the front even though that's not how it's labeled. And so on.
This post was edited on 7/6/23 at 9:14 pm
Posted on 7/7/23 at 8:47 am to DestrehanTiger
quote:
The #1 index is always on the front nine and #2 is always on the back.
Sometimes it's flipped. It depends on what hole is #1. They do this in order to be able to play 9 holes with a 9 hole handicap.
Posted on 7/7/23 at 9:49 am to medtiger
quote:
Sometimes it's flipped.
I wasn't sure when I wrote that if it was 100% correct. I make a spreadsheet to track golf gambling games automatically and have all the courses we typically play with the details. I went through it and noticed all of them had the odd numbers on the front nine. So, I took it to mean that is for all courses, but good to know it can be flipped.
This post was edited on 7/7/23 at 9:53 am
Posted on 7/8/23 at 12:00 pm to DestrehanTiger
It’s not necessarily hardest to easiest score wise. Most of the times 1-4 are par fives and 15-18 are par threes. There are exceptions of course.
Posted on 7/8/23 at 1:47 pm to DestrehanTiger
To me the issue with the hole handicapping is that often times courses rate their holes improperly. A lot of munis especially just have their longest par 5 listed as their #1 handicap and their shortest par 4 listed as their #18.
Seems like not a lot of actual thought goes into the hole rankings
Seems like not a lot of actual thought goes into the hole rankings
Posted on 7/8/23 at 3:33 pm to mikedatyger
quote:make more birdies
That IS the issue. I do beat them gross. In our leagues, you add in hdcp/strokes for NET scores and then I get hosed.
As stated, I shot a 36. The guy I played with shot 52. I end up even and he ends up -2.
I play in a similar league. 6-8 handicap and the guys i play with are seniors. I get whipped most weekends, but do pull my points. I add a sandbag week every now and then when Im not striking it well just to give myself a shot at winning the pool
Posted on 7/8/23 at 3:41 pm to Tiger1242
quote:
HDCPs are stupid. by Tiger1242To me the issue with the hole handicapping is that often times courses rate their holes improperly. A lot of munis especially just have their longest par 5 listed as their #1 handicap and their shortest par 4 listed as their #18.
Seems like not a lot of actual thought goes into the hole rankings
Holes aren’t necessarily rated for difficulty. They’re rated according to where a higher handicap needs help against low. So a long par 5 where a low handicap is likely to make birdie or par at worst, a higher handicap needs help.
And courses are rated by the USGA, not the club
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