re: WoW

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In classic Wow BiS gear is blues from level 40 dungeons you can solo.

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With ridiculously low drop rates that actually made you insanely happy when it finally did drop and you got your BiS. Compare getting Benthic gear to having Thunderfury drop. It's not even remotely the same.

And in your example, it would be BiS for one slot and it was because it was a crazy special item that was overtuned on purpose by the devs (class designer Kevin Jordan said this himself). You'd still have to go to current content raiding, which was significantly harder than other content, to get most of your BiS.

Having random BiS gear in lower level content is what keeps all content relevant. It's great design.

It's crafted from an item you get that drops off a boss at the end of a huge and challenging questline. You get the point. Guaranteed rewards easily attainable by the entire playerbase are boring.

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Yikes. I'm out with this statement

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Enjoy grinding that benthic gear so your work can be completely negated in 3 months where you'll be back on even footing with the guy that plays once a week. Super rewarding.

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415 ilvl

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That's normal difficulty raid gear on a brand new raid that just dropped and only 5 ilvls lower than mythic raid gear from the last raid. Exactly my point. You are now just about as geared as people who were mythic raiders last patch.

Being behind doesn't matter. As soon as you hit max level and finish up the story quests in current content you'll get skyrocketed into the same power gear as everyone else. If you just want to do dungeons and raids, current WoW is fine. If you want to play an actual MMORPG, wait for Classic on August 27th.

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Then BFA isn't for you. If you fall behind there will be a new catchup mechanic every 2 months. If you want the grind, just wait for Classic on August 27th.

Also leveling is way faster because they completely slashed the exp needed to reach max level by nearly half not too long ago. 8.1 I believe it was.

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I guess I should correct that and say the leveling and exploring is that part that I love. The raiding, I can take it or leave it.

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This is one of the core problems with modern WoW, IMO. 98% of the content in the game is irrelevant now. Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor might as well not even exist once you hit max level and it's been that way since at least WoD. I really hope Classic is a splash of cold water in the face of the Blizz execs.

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That's kinda expected to happen though with numerous expansions being released. The major cities are still used. But as more and more expansions come out, bringing more worlds, areas and content, the old content should become irrelevant for the most part. I guess they could put more new content melded into the old world, but why would I at level 120 want to go back to Stranglethorn Vale?

I played pretty hardcore in vanilla, semi hardcore in TBC, leveled in wotlk and then quit. I got the classic bug (and enough time to play) ~3 years ago. I played on Nost, raided on Rebirth, raided on Kronos, raided on Elysium/Light's Hope, leveled in Northdale (but had a change in jobs and no more time to play).

I think the biggest difference/challenge for classic is going to be how much min/max info there is and how fast people tear through content (and how that will ruin the "nostalgia" feel after a while). Even the "nostalgia" people that play classic will eventually get 60 and want to keep going. Specs/equipment/consumables/strategies are so specific/efficient now, that you are pigeon holed into playing a cookie cutter character or are considered someone that is hurting the group and slowing progress. Yes a spriest/feral druid/enhance shaman can raid, but any hardcore/semi hardcore group won't want them as a rogue/warr will bring so much more dps.

I think the last launch I was on (Northdale) had its first 60 in 3 days and all content cleared in <2 weeks. It was like that for every patch....there are no more "prep" raids where you learn an encounter, develop a strat, gear up, etc. People will be prepping for BWL/AQ/Naxx for months and will clear them the day they are released (maybe not Naxx). I was a good/great player in retail, on private servers I was just average because to be great you have to farm a never ending list of consumables (top dps will always flask, etc.). Eventually all you do is farm consumables and prep for raids.

The economy will also be interesting. People know exactly what items are needed and when (for example Elemental Earth for AQ) and can really play the AH and hoard items, then sell when the market peaks. Mages will hyper inflate everything once DM comes out, and then you will also have "mafias" controlling things like the black lotus and devilsaur leather market. I never really remember any of this in vanilla, if people knew about that stuff it was kept secret.

I got my nostalgia fix and did enjoy playing a lot. But the nostalgia quickly faded at the end game, and I burned out enough that I'm not even going to play classic.

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What item are you talking about? I know there were a few BiS items from the 5 man's (Savage Gladiator Chain, etc.) but can't think of one from a level 40 dungeon.

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This may not be what he's talking about, but the BOE staff Warden Staff was BIS for feral druids for a loooong time if I remember right. It's a BOE and not specifically found in dungeons I believe. Just another example I was thinking of.

ETA: Warden Staff was actually epic, I had forgotten that. So it wasn't blue. Carry on.

Sure, that's understandable.

Just contributing, it's a level 43 item that is used for a pretty long time if you can snag one.

I haven't played private servers, but I don't remember level 40 dungeon blues being BIS into raiding on my hunter in vanilla but I could be wrong.

I do remember having to get some leather items, the Arathi Basin crossbow, and good ole Bone-Slicing hatchets to raiding though but that was into the 50s and at 60. Farming stuff like that is what I do miss about vanilla.